Need a Norse mythologists help!

Hey.


Soooo.... I just want to ask a few theoretical questions about norse mythology. If anyone is well versed in this, please give me some answers and/or resources.

My first question is about the Bifröst bridge that connects Asgard to Midgard. Theoretically, where would the location of the bridge be on earth? Does it state or hint at any location (I'm sure there are thick, heavy books with lots of information but I'd rather an expert get right to the point) on this end? I know kind of where it would be in Asgard.

2nd question is (and really, I'm just asking its ALL theoretical curiosity), much like in greek mythology, has a norse god ever loved a mortal? And I know the difference between loved and bedded. So please answer honestly.

3rd question is: has there ever been any supporting evidence or any theories that support the norse claim of the nine worlds? I mean, has anyone ever stumbled upon something that resembled a planet like Asgard in the sky but wasn't sure? Or Valhalla? There are so many planets out there... so many possibilities. Even the dimensional theory that there are several dimensions and that the norse mythology meant to say that the tree of Yggdrasil was divided into 9 realms. Yet somehow the gods were able to come to Midgard by using the Bifröst bridge. How would that factor into it? Because they do say that mapping the nine worlds was almost impossible because the vagueness of the Prose Edda. So really... if it were to exist we may not even be able to tell.

If anyone has any time, please give me answers and resources.

Thanks, by the way.

-S.

[norseman]

HI there ! You may find what you want here - http://www.pantheon.org/areas/mythology/europe/norse/

I would also suggest that you pose your questions under Paganism [in Religions] also. You may get a wider audience there.

Originally Posted by Idhrenniel

Hey.


Soooo.... I just want to ask a few theoretical questions about norse mythology. If anyone is well versed in this, please give me some answers and/or resources.

My first question is about the Bifröst bridge that connects Asgard to Midgard. Theoretically, where would the location of the bridge be on earth? Does it state or hint at any location (I'm sure there are thick, heavy books with lots of information but I'd rather an expert get right to the point) on this end? I know kind of where it would be in Asgard.

If you look at a rainbow, you can see that it leads back to earth. The idea that the gods live up in the sky doesn't seem to have been a common idea in Germanic religion. If you read the Heliand, which is an Old Saxon poem that retells the story of Jesus in Saxon/Germanic terms, God the Father isn't up in some celestial abode; he lives on a hillfort on a tallest mountain.

The Eddic mythology was mostly ordered by Snorri Sturluson, and by the time the Snorra Edda (or Prose Edda) was written, Iceland had been Christian for some 200 years. So while the Edda is a VERY valuable source of lore and myth, it's also very christianized, and even hellenized. In some mythical details you can see clear influence from greco-roman myth and even allusions to the New Testament.

And then you have the problem of there being no CERTAIN terms that Bifrost refers to the rainbow - some theorize it could refer to the milky way, since the etymology of the name is a little fuzzy.

It's interesting to also note that in many northern european folklores, the rainbow is the bridge the dead take to the otherworld.

So, the answer would be that we can't be sure where people thought of the bridge as being located. But a lot of evidence does suggest that the pre-christian norse didn't see the gods as being separate from the world, and any kind of bridge was more likely to represent the mysteriousness of the gods (since a rainbow, if Bifrost is indeed one, would've appeared for a brief time).

2nd question is (and really, I'm just asking its ALL theoretical curiosity), much like in greek mythology, has a norse god ever loved a mortal? And I know the difference between loved and bedded. So please answer honestly.

In Saxo Grammaticus' Gesta Danorum the gods are thoroughly euhemerized. They're presented as being cunning sorcerers or great leaders who people mistook for gods (Snorri takes this route too in the Prologue of his Edda, but he doesn't present them as being humans in the actual books). So yes, the could be seen as loving mortals, since in some mythology they were presented as being human themselves. But, where they ARE presented as gods, they're never shown as getting very involved with most mortals. Although you do have the common idea of tribes and royalty being descendants of gods; e.g. the Anglo-Saxon kings being related to Woden (the cognate of Odin), and the Swedes being born of Yngvi-Freyr.

3rd question is: has there ever been any supporting evidence or any theories that support the norse claim of the nine worlds? I mean, has anyone ever stumbled upon something that resembled a planet like Asgard in the sky but wasn't sure? Or Valhalla? There are so many planets out there... so many possibilities. Even the dimensional theory that there are several dimensions and that the norse mythology meant to say that the tree of Yggdrasil was divided into 9 realms. Yet somehow the gods were able to come to Midgard by using the Bifröst bridge. How would that factor into it? Because they do say that mapping the nine worlds was almost impossible because the vagueness of the Prose Edda. So really... if it were to exist we may not even be able to tell.

If anyone has any time, please give me answers and resources.

Thanks, by the way.

-S.

There is still a lot of debate about the whole Nine Worlds. One growing theory is that they referred to actual places on earth. For instance, there is evidence that points to Alfheim, or elf-home being in a southern part of Sweden. And Jotunheim, or giant-home is seen being in the arctic circle.

Yggdrasil is likely a poetic term that evolved out of the use of sacred trees and cult pillars that were erected in the center of settlements. Trees were very important in cultic practices for many Germanic peoples, and seeing the world as being superimposed upon a giant tree or pillar would've come naturally. There's also echoes of it in Finnish lore, where there's a great pole fastened to the north star, that Finnish wizards and shamans use to traverse the 3 worlds (sky-world, man-world and underworld). And that obviously can be connected with Odin's ordeal upon Yggdrasil, where he learned his Runar. Then you have the fact that Yggdrasil is a kenning - it means Yggr's Horse. Yggr means 'terrible' and is a name for Odin, and horse was a common poetic reference to hangman's gallows.

The books I'd recommend are:

http://www.amazon.com/Dictionary-Nor.../dp/0859915131

http://www.amazon.com/Myths-Northern...ref=pd_sim_b_2

http://www.amazon.com/Myths-Symbols-...ref=pd_sim_b_8

http://www.amazon.com/Norse-Myths-Pa...ef=pd_sim_b_12

Those books will whet your appetite, at the very least

You can also browse through and read essays, theses and books on Grimulfr's list, which is really, just plain awesome: http://www.mediafire.com/?yj4qtc6qcqjo0
But do keep in mind that the older works aren't going to be the best resources or references, since Germanic/Norse scholarship has come a long way.

So, then, theoretically, the gods presences' could be found here on earth? now and then? I mean, i get what your saying about the Bifrost connecting back to earth. But then the gods built it from Asgard so that they could have a small connection with the humans.
They supposedly made us, after all. So, would they not welcome the presence of mortals? (some, maybe not all of them would)

And I was also wondering (I ask way too many things, forgive me!) if it is true, in the norse mythology, that Heimdall is able to see the earth. So technically he would be seeing the humans. Can he hear them too? He opens the portal, right, because he guards the bridge. And the gods call him to get back, so technically he would hear a human too?

Okay, one last thing... And so I've always visualized Yggdrasil as being in space from planet to planet. I guess the Bifrost thing only came in because I wondered how the Gods would get from Asgard to Midgard and so I actually get what you said about the milky way. It makes more sense.

Just answer in a mindset that isn't completely logical because the questions I'm asking are anything but! ;D

Thanks so much for your answer Animus, and for all those resources. Its really helpful of you!

-S.

Not really find them here on Earth per say, Ragnarok and the rest of the Norse gods' times are up, kinda like how you don't see any other god or goddess from other mythology. Long after the Norse gods left is when the Catholicism swept through Europe so don't confuse the two vastly different religions.

[norseman]

I would not class Catholicism as a religion, more a bureaucratic system for control of the population.

Hm, at most, I have only ever read about Valkyries falling in love with humans (with punishment of course).

Originally Posted by Rumar

Not really find them here on Earth per say, Ragnarok and the rest of the Norse gods' times are up, kinda like how you don't see any other god or goddess from other mythology. Long after the Norse gods left is when the Catholicism swept through Europe so don't confuse the two vastly different religions.

I didn't confuse the two. But, this "Ragnarok" thing, isn't it a battle at the end of the world?

Is it supposed to happen on Midgard or in another realm?

Originally Posted by Animus27

If you read the Heliand, which is an Old Saxon poem that retells the story of Jesus in Saxon/Germanic terms, God the Father isn't up in some celestial abode; he lives on a hillfort on a tallest mountain.

This I find very interesting because for some time now I have said that Zeus was the father of Jesus (not Yahweh who only have proclaimed it for selfish reasons) and it is so that Zeus lives on Olympus what was thought of a mountain that went all the way up to heaven.

Originally Posted by Animus27

In Saxo Grammaticus' Gesta Danorum the gods are thoroughly euhemerized. They're presented as being cunning sorcerers or great leaders who people mistook for gods (Snorri takes this route too in the Prologue of his Edda, but he doesn't present them as being humans in the actual books). So yes, the could be seen as loving mortals, since in some mythology they were presented as being human themselves. But, where they ARE presented as gods, they're never shown as getting very involved with most mortals. Although you do have the common idea of tribes and royalty being descendants of gods; e.g. the Anglo-Saxon kings being related to Woden (the cognate of Odin), and the Swedes being born of Yngvi-Freyr.

In greek mythology the deities had divine bodies where they could walk both on earth and in their divine realms until they lost them. And Dionysus was a mortal incarnation of Hermes so that he is considered an independent deity confuses me because this could also be the case with the norse, that some are demi-gods and others are deities. Then again I know that the Tuatha dé Danaan (the Irish god people) are mortal incarnations of the Olympians so I think that there is a possibility that it is the same with the Norse deities. Balderus (Baldr) is a mortal incarnation of Hermes and that Bragi and Baldr is the same being two different lives.

Originally Posted by Idhrenniel

I didn't confuse the two. But, this "Ragnarok" thing, isn't it a battle at the end of the world?

Is it supposed to happen on Midgard or in another realm?

As far as my visions say it will happen in Asgaard but what happens in the spirit world have a way to manifest itself in the physical world, the question is just how. But there is also the possibility that Ragnarok never comes.