Losing faith in zen

Is it possible to lose ones faith in zen? In losing faith in this am I in fact losing faith in myself and life?
The reason I ask is that I've prefered reading and practicing a more general spiritual approach. I believe there's more to the universe than karma alone. There are things out there that we can't explain with our limited human minds. When I do the Bodhissatva vows each morning I feel like i'm being a phoney and not believing what I chant. I still want to be part of my sangha though as I enjoy going to the zendo and love reading zen books.

Any thoughts?

[BlueSky]

Originally Posted by Greg

Is it possible to lose ones faith in zen? In losing faith in this am I in fact losing faith in myself and life?
The reason I ask is that I've prefered reading and practicing a more general spiritual approach. I believe there's more to the universe than karma alone. There are things out there that we can't explain with our limited human minds. When I do the Bodhissatva vows each morning I feel like i'm being a phoney and not believing what I chant. I still want to be part of my sangha though as I enjoy going to the zendo and love reading zen books.

Any thoughts?

Sounds like growing pains.......enjoy the ride!

James

Greetings..

Originally Posted by Greg

Is it possible to lose ones faith in zen? In losing faith in this am I in fact losing faith in myself and life?
The reason I ask is that I've prefered reading and practicing a more general spiritual approach. I believe there's more to the universe than karma alone. There are things out there that we can't explain with our limited human minds. When I do the Bodhissatva vows each morning I feel like i'm being a phoney and not believing what I chant. I still want to be part of my sangha though as I enjoy going to the zendo and love reading zen books.

Any thoughts?

Zen is empty mind....... empty mind..... vows? mind not empty! karma? mind not empty.. empty mind...

Be well..

[BlueSky]

Originally Posted by TzuJanLi

Greetings..


Zen is empty mind....... empty mind..... vows? mind not empty! karma? mind not empty.. empty mind...

Be well..

In all seriousness........wouldn't "empty mind" also be ...mind not empty?
James

Zen is pure awareness.

Pure awareness is the gateway to that, "more"!

Greetings..

Originally Posted by WhiteShaman

In all seriousness........wouldn't "empty mind" also be ...mind not empty?
James

The study of Zen, not a passing fancy, but the actual disciplined study, reveals the that "empty mind" still has what is 'in' it, but.. the mind is still and quiet, stripping away that which distorts direct experience.. direct experience reveals that we are Energy, intricately and intimately connected throughout the Cosmos, and.. like a snowflake, made of energy rather than water, we are also uniquely manifested.. like an ice-cube in water, different states of the same stuff.. to the founders of Zen the 'still mind' seemed 'empty'.. a place where Life was not manipulated by desire and prejudice..

Be well..

[Samana]

Originally Posted by Greg

Is it possible to lose ones faith in zen? In losing faith in this am I in fact losing faith in myself and life?
The reason I ask is that I've prefered reading and practicing a more general spiritual approach. I believe there's more to the universe than karma alone. There are things out there that we can't explain with our limited human minds. When I do the Bodhissatva vows each morning I feel like i'm being a phoney and not believing what I chant. I still want to be part of my sangha though as I enjoy going to the zendo and love reading zen books.

Any thoughts?

Investigate the pure teachings of Thai Theravada Forest tradition. No Bodhisattva vows are necessary for those who naturally practice loving kindness and compassion and who develop clarity, emptiness and awareness through their meditation practice.

my advice.


forget zen, forget the practice, forget the ideas. you need to stop it all.

repeat the following mantra.


F* zen
F* buddha
F* enlightenment
F* the masters
I don't give a F*

--- no I'm not being pointlessly offensive ---

philosophy stops here for you. it's as simple as this, if when you stop the water dripping - it makes it's way down the side of your house and onto the street, then you know it is the way. We are told well by buddhism and zen that there comes a time when you need to forget tradition. If you need it, you'll be back and it'll always be with you.

I hope you understand.

[BlueSky]

Originally Posted by TzuJanLi

Greetings..


The study of Zen, not a passing fancy, but the actual disciplined study, reveals the that "empty mind" still has what is 'in' it, but.. the mind is still and quiet, stripping away that which distorts direct experience.. direct experience reveals that we are Energy, intricately and intimately connected throughout the Cosmos, and.. like a snowflake, made of energy rather than water, we are also uniquely manifested.. like an ice-cube in water, different states of the same stuff.. to the founders of Zen the 'still mind' seemed 'empty'.. a place where Life was not manipulated by desire and prejudice..

Be well..

I hear you but what I am getting at is what you call "the study of" and when you say "empty your mind" is better stated from this ones life expereince as "The realization of" and "The mind becomes calms"
There is nothing that needs to be done other than what you are doing.
One studies Zen, for various reasons but one simply discovers it.

A still mind doesn't know it is still or need to be still or expereince "stillness"...it just IS.
IMHO
James

[BlueSky]

Originally Posted by breath

my advice.


forget zen, forget the practice, forget the ideas. you need to stop it all.

repeat the following mantra.


F* zen
F* buddha
F* enlightenment
F* the masters
I don't give a F*

--- no I'm not being pointlessly offensive ---

philosophy stops here for you. it's as simple as this, if when you stop the water dripping - it makes it's way down the side of your house and onto the street, then you know it is the way. We are told well by buddhism and zen that there comes a time when you need to forget tradition. If you need it, you'll be back and it'll always be with you.

I hope you understand.

I like your post but here again.......there is no need to do or not do, other than what you are doing or not doing.
"Forget it' ,if that is where you feel yourself aligned with but also practice tradition if that is where you feel yourself aligned with.
What you said is good advice IMO......but it is not necessary.
The OP knows what to do or not do next and whatever he decides is OK.
James