I'm Sorry Everyone - Here's The Reason I Acted That Way

Actually ,12 padams is not sorry .
You can check what kind of person he is at obe4u.
"Let's see how powerful these astral projectors are" his thread where he
talks only nice things about people from SF.
I hope I won't get another warning for saying 12padams and summerlander
are probably some kind of sect.

So nice to know this "26 year old female astral projector" is worthy of mention! She sounds like a really lame chick.

Look at the post date of that topic your arguing about... That was before I apologized and made this thread... It actually was made at the same time I made my "prove it" thread on these forums and I even have bold text at the top of the first post saying I changed my mind about that.

In case you can't read it "Warning: I acted heartless and cruel to the people from spritual forums so sorry for this post if any of you from that website are reading... I won't do this again"

Really please look at posting times before you comment on things like this!
oh and if you think I added that message just then once again look at the posting times... « Last Edit: 26-04-2012, 10:55:44 by 12padams »

I am glad I finally know why you have been acting aggressive to me and purposely insulting me on other threads. I forgive you :)

I've moved on from that "disrespect" for your spiritual beliefs and I made this thread at the moment I did that. The reason I acted like that is I felt sorry for you and was trying to reveal to you what I thought was the truth. Then when you called what I thought was the truth "wrong" I got angry and made that thread at obe4u.com that your attempting to get me in trouble for. Would you like me to delete that thread... If that's the problem thats causing your anger then I am more than happy remove it.

My number one rule is "no enemies". That's the reason I like to discus problems so we can work it out and make everybody happy :)

Originally Posted by astralsuzy

My mother would say no one will ever know what really happens. We think this or that but in the end no one really knows. We should not worry about it and we should think more of this life. Trying to work out what happens will only cause frustration and arguments.

Your mother is absolutely right.

Originally Posted by Summerlander

By the way, nothing lies outside of science. That is a ridiculous statement. If there really are such things as ghosts and spirits then they will be found eventually although I think they would have been found by now if they really existed.

Originally Posted by Summerlander

No. They haven't ignored anything. The life force is gone. That's as far as they will go. .

Im sure it doesnt seem like such a ridiculous statement when you have said the same yourself. I dont know how science will find the existence of spirits when you have stated that as far as they will go is that the life force left the body and the investigation stops there at the remains.



Nicely said astralsuzys mum

[Podshell]

Science is an integral part of culture. It's not this foreign thing,done by an arcane priesthood. It's one of the glories of the human intellectual tradition

Gould, Stephen Jay

Who decides who the scientists and the peers that review are?

In my book the real scientist are those that do research into anything. So what appears to be happening here is that people who have gone before and today even have done research into the afterlife , astral ,religion/philosophy and got repeatable results, Summerland and others are also doing this , but what if actual projection occurs and he only concentrates on fiting everything into lucid dreaming? that could mean disregarding the only useful part ie AP (if it is useful) and trying to develop that part of the experience.

Originally Posted by res

Im sure it doesnt seem like such a ridiculous statement when you have said the same yourself. I dont know how science will find the existence of spirits when you have stated that as far as they will go is that the life force left the body and the investigation stops there at the remains.



Nicely said astralsuzys mum

That's as far as they will go at the moment, res. Did you read my post fully or just partially? Did you understand it too?

Originally Posted by res

Im sure it doesnt seem like such a ridiculous statement when you have said the same yourself. I dont know how science will find the existence of spirits when you have stated that as far as they will go is that the life force left the body and the investigation stops there at the remains.



Nicely said astralsuzys mum

That's as far as they will go at the moment, res. Did you read my post fully or just partially? Did you understand it too?

To say that something lies outside science is hardly realistic considering how far we've come. All you have to do is look around and appreciate the technology we have and how beneficial our discoveries have been - not to mention the many old wives' tales and mysticism that science has busted.

Science continues to evolve and at an even faster rate than before. That's how ridiculous the statement that something lies outside science is. It lacks foundation. It is the best method we have to study the nature of reality. Just recently, it has given hope to RP sufferers thanks to scientific research and the engineering of an implant that promotes visual perception:

http://forum.obe4u.com/index.php?topic=1112.0

There are more chances of the theoretical Higgs boson existing than spirits. Protons are smashed at the Large Hadron Collider where interactions between subatomic particles are studied. This research has aided many inventions and pretty soon we will be able to by quantum computers because of it. So far, there has been no detection or indication that a spirit realm exists. It it is not part of the physical universe then what is it? Non-physical sounds like an oxymoronic term to me. For something to be able to have an influence in a physical reality, it must be physical too. No physical evidence has been found.

Buddha said it all: There is no self

So far it seems more evident to me that the self is nothing but a sense resultant of complex biological mechanisms that have their roots right down to the planck scale and these interactions extend all the way to the macro level. Descartes' dualism has always been moot. It is not a spirit that moves a physical body (how can it if they say it is non-physical), it is electrical impulses. Electrical activity can be measured in the body. Some say spirits are made of energy and therefore can exert influence. Where is this energy?

I welcome anyone to a sensible debate on this and if you think you have concrete proof of the existence of a spirit world and its inhabitants, do show it to me. If your fire burns strong in proving to the world what you have discovered for yourself, share it.

[Podshell]

This is subtler physical energy I think, and to witness it, it would be not much use examining the nuts and bolts of the gross physical particles.

Could relate some of the answers back to the magnetic field influencing the physical particles, we need to take steps to be able to witness this field. You have a force influencing physical material.

I believe some mediums actually do this, they can improve themselves to witness auras for instance, so in these cases the actual senses of those mediums could be considered like parts of a scientific instrument, why do you mistrust the results they get and yet trust the results other scientists get who are using machines that are at least one step removed?

Some of the answers we are looking for might lie in the quantum realm. The behaviour of light is still quite elusive to science. In the quantum level of reality, uncertainty seems to rule. We can't tell the state of a particle until we actually measure it and then everything else becomes fuzzy. Reality on that level behaves in a very different way and challenges human logic. It's like certain "tricks" only work there if nobody is looking in the "magician's hat".

The way the phase world behaves (even ordinary dreams for that matter) is very congruent with the nature of quantum mechanics. In the metaphysical world that we visit when we project, reality often transmutes. For instance, you can see a book on a table, look away and look back to find that it has changed or that it is gone. You can also find that the text in the book is constantly changing, rapidly like the digits in a stopwatch. Then you try to read it (make a logical measurement) and voila, you discern a word that might make sense or not. But the word wasn't there before. It appeared and you saw it happen because you made a measurement.

Quantum mechanics are quite challenging for any scientist.

[Podshell]

Some types of shamanism go into setting up dreams like this and then tell you how to easily travel in the astral, I think Castaneda goes into it in The Art of Dreaming, first find your hand in your dream then wehen your hand starts to change shape glance away at another object , when that starts distorting then glance back at your hand, you are supposed to keep doing this until you stabilise the dream , a next step is to think of a location or person and your double is pulled there.

Originally Posted by Summerlander

That's as far as they will go at the moment, res. Did you read my post fully or just partially? Did you understand it too?

I live in this moment and discuss matters that pertain to the same. When i read your posts i seem to be reading more of what others have written that you have chosen to accumulate as your total wisdom. Makes it hard for me to take you seriously as a researcher of truth but rather a researcher of literature. You wont find anything that others have not found following in their shadows .

Originally Posted by Summerlander

To say that something lies outside science is hardly realistic considering how far we've come. All you have to do is look around and appreciate the technology we have and how beneficial our discoveries have been - not to mention the many old wives' tales and mysticism that science has busted.

Science continues to evolve and at an even faster rate than before. That's how ridiculous the statement that something lies outside science is. It lacks foundation. It is the best method we have to study the nature of reality.

I welcome anyone to a sensible debate on this and if you think you have concrete proof of the existence of a spirit world and its inhabitants, do show it to me. If your fire burns strong in proving to the world what you have discovered for yourself, share it.

Sorry Summerlander i dont feel like being provoked in to giving you futile proof that you will only accept as truth when you experience it for yourself first hand. There is no truth in reading text, only trust and belief.....can you understand that! Your beliefs are so deeply rooted in the physical reality that you are are no where near in a position to find anything in these spiritual forums except resistance by those members that see you for what you are be-ing.

Heres some advice for you that is of the scientific world....study Newtons third law before you consider approaching people for their assistance.

There is no honor in your attempted conquest here Summerlander and thats as close as i can get to the core of this sensible debate with you.

Originally Posted by Podshell

Some types of shamanism go into setting up dreams like this and then tell you how to easily travel in the astral, I think Castaneda goes into it in The Art of Dreaming, first find your hand in your dream then wehen your hand starts to change shape glance away at another object , when that starts distorting then glance back at your hand, you are supposed to keep doing this until you stabilise the dream , a next step is to think of a location or person and your double is pulled there.

Hmmm... this sounds like the form of deepening of the phase. You will find many other technique's in Raduga's SOBT. Carlos Castaneda's "Art of Dreaming" is useful even though it is coloured with his mystical views.