The elephant in the room.

Originally Posted by Debrah

You're still wrong. Gandhi was a lifelong vegetarian (which includes milk) and he tried veganism for a short time. Those are facts on a website devoted to him and his life. http://www.gandhifoundation.net/about%20gandhi5.htm

You're wrong, you've been shown the facts and that you hang on to your error.... maybe it's time to take your ego elsewhere.

My my, I feel SO fully flagellated by your fierce hurling of the 'E' word - you can feel very proud of yourself.

And the discussion is about eating animal or vegetable, is it not? It's like saying "I don't need to breath air, I just weaken and die without it." That person is, of course, only fooling themselves.

[Lucky 1]

Originally Posted by Altair

I agree hunting is mostly a hobby.. although I see its purpose in case of invasive species such as cats in Australia.. it then becomes a matter of preserving unique nature and ecosystems and sometimes it means getting rid of pests. In other cases, such as too many boar in some European regions we do better to improve the ecosystems by increasing natural habitat for predators (that belong here) such as wolves. They’re a whole lot better at preserving ecosystems and balance than we are..

And not hunting but buying steak in the store isn’t better of course..
So while I disagree with hobby hunting it’s still not as bad as commercial, intensive meat.

Hunting for me is not even remotely a hobby......and just like wolves, coyotes and other predators we are also a hunting species and part of the cycle of life on this planet....and we have always been since our species crawled from the primordial ooze.....it is literally our genetic heritage.

I like to say that we are in fact "part of nature"......and not outside of it.

And myself and the circle of people I run with do not buy commercial meat as we find the whole process of commercial meat production pretty loathsome and we only hunt what we need for the freezer.

I will also tell you that I eat a lot less meat than you might imagine.
I would actually describe myself as a "near vegetarian" that also eats a bit of meat and fish.....more fish than meat.....all wild and natural of course.

Originally Posted by Lucky 1

...I will also tell you that I eat a lot less meat than you might imagine...

I much prefer eating meat as a side or minor ingredient, using bacon or proscuito or a bit of sausage for flavor for example, rather than as a main course.

And speaking of industrial sourced meat, who can afford it these days, anyway?

[Altair]

Originally Posted by Lucky 1

Hunting for me is not even remotely a hobby......and just like wolves, coyotes and other predators we are also a hunting species and part of the cycle of life on this planet....and we have always been since our species crawled from the primordial ooze.....it is literally our genetic heritage.

I like to say that we are in fact "part of nature"......and not outside of it.

And myself and the circle of people I run with do not buy commercial meat as we find the whole process of commercial meat production pretty loathsome and we only hunt what we need for the freezer.

I will also tell you that I eat a lot less meat than you might imagine.
I would actually describe myself as a "near vegetarian" that also eats a bit of meat and fish.....more fish than meat.....all wild and natural of course.

I already mentioned I don't disapprove hunting in some cases, sometimes violence is needed to preserve the 'greater good'. I don't consider it spiritual but I don't see it as a black and white issue either. Plenty of things we do aren't very spiritual. Where I strongly disapprove: Hunters across Europe are very much anti-predatory animals. They seek to keep the deer and boar for themselves because it keeps the hobby alive. If however, hunters could coexist with healthy populations of bears and wolves then I am not going to argue much over it. I don't approve of the lifestyle. There's also the case of grouse shooting in the UK, where hunters and land management combined keep moors intact, with no trees allowed to grow and no revitalization of the land is allowed. They sustain an artificial landscape purely to the benefit of hunting grouse, at the cost of many other species. This is hobbyism and tradition, it's not to preserve balance and ecological quality.

We are part of nature.. we always are.. with or without hunting. Human nature is not fixed like wild animals. We are part of nature but we're an anomaly.

[Pagandell]

Originally Posted by Debrah

You're talking about an activity. And you can share a bottle of apple juice, water, tea, coffee......

Logically speaking, I can't understand the mental process that suggests that drinking something that can be used to disinfect wounds or other surfaces, can be seen to be harmless in any sense.

Alcohol kills bacteria. Your gut is full of necessary bacteria to protect your health in numerous ways. What is that alcohol doing to your bodies gut bacteria? And considering that your liver has to process that alcohol and continued drinking can destroy your liver.......choose the apple juice is a healthier recommendation and enjoy the activity of 'spending time with your mates'.

I think Ghandi was talking about the monastic life, not being judgmental to peeps out here in the material world like you are.

[Pagandell]

Originally Posted by Kioma

I much prefer eating meat as a side or minor ingredient, using bacon or proscuito or a bit of sausage for flavor for example, rather than as a main course.

How can you use a bit of sausage for flavor, flesh has no flavor, its the non animal things like salt, herbs, spices, onions and all that, that produce the flavor that's why its called a sauce-sage.

[Debrah]

Originally Posted by Kioma

My my, I feel SO fully flagellated by your fierce hurling of the 'E' word - you can feel very proud of yourself.

And the discussion is about eating animal or vegetable, is it not? It's like saying "I don't need to breath air, I just weaken and die without it." That person is, of course, only fooling themselves.

Well the discussion may be about eating animals or vegetables and you brought Gandhi into the discussion. That you're reluctant to accept what the correct facts are concerning his dietary experience is between you and your conscience.
Some would consider it to be all about ego if you chose to ignore the correction. Call it whatever you want.

[Debrah]

Originally Posted by Pagandell

I think Ghandi was talking about the monastic life, not being judgmental to peeps out here in the material world like you are.

So was it my use of the word 'ego' that is bothering you? What would you call it when someone makes an easily verifiable statement that turns out to be incorrect and stands by his opinion? Refuses to acquiesce?

He made the comment about Gandhi that was incorrect and someone corrected his information. He didn't accept the correction and tried to spin it. I found a link to show him that the first correction was accurate. What do you call it?

As for Gandhi's opinion of your 'drink', he said it was abhorrent and a deterrent to a spiritual life (paraphrased roughly from the link in my last comment to you). It had nothing to do with living a monastic life. Besides, considering that you're hanging out on a spiritual forum, I would have assumed that you had some interest in what he felt it would have to your goal of a spiritual life. I thought you might so give consideration to one of history's greatest spiritual leaders thoughts on the matter. My apologies if I misunderstood.

As for being judgemental, well I guess we're all guilty of it aren't we?

[Debrah]

Originally Posted by Lucky 1

10's of millions of men and woman around the world who follow the spiritual path of the hunter would disagree.....you are of course entitled to your opinion.

But your lack understanding of the circle of life and how the human species fits into it as the "thinking hunter" is a bit appalling.

I find it interesting how ideological vegans such as yourself have no issue whatsoever with trashing the spiritual beliefs of others and yet claim such spiritual superiority.......

You'll note that I have not said one negative word about anyone's beliefs on here. ....

Of course they would disagree. And farmers all will tell you they love their cows like family, just before they load the next cow whose production is down, onto the slaughter truck.

Having been in this life for 63 years, I can assure you that my understanding of the 'circle of life' is fully intact. I see life very simply as them, being here with us, not for us.

And while I evolved to this philosophy on the basis of morality, ongoing reading about meat and it's effect on our physical body, not only convinces me that it isn't good for us but that we were not designed to eat it.

And further reading too about the effects of the animal agriculture industry on the environment has me convinced that one of the major changes we need to make if we hope to have a world for our great grandchildren to live in, is that we have to all quit eating the animals. They can't take it! Ecosystems are disappearing because of the meat consumption around the globe, populations of whole species are disappearing because people 'just gotta eat them or grind them up and snort them, or hang their heads on walls, or cause they just like killing stuff'.

I'm not 'trashing your philosophy' for the sake of trashing something. I just don't agree with it on any level. So just like you are here on a Vegetarian/Vegan forum telling us you like to hunt and kill animals, I am telling you that in my opinion it is wrong and to try and tie spirtiuality to it is wrong too.

[Baile]

Originally Posted by Debrah

I'm not 'trashing your philosophy'...

Perfectly appropriate -- even critically important, especially these days -- to call out and trash manipulative dishonesty when it rears its head: posting on a spiritual site, claiming it's a "spiritual philosophy" to kill animals while gleefully celebrating hunting season; people justifying cheating on their spouse and having an affair with their supposed TF because it's a "spiritual relationship".