Dependent origination

[Phaelyn]

Originally Posted by sky123

That's if you personally see values as Highest /Lowest. I prefer the ' Middle Way '

The discernment is based on choice of experience in the now, not ideas or religious dogma. Highest/Lowest/Middle Way are all mental ideas one can put the attention on here now or not.

Discernment of a choice only exists if we are aware such a choice exists. It's possible some are not aware of a non-conceptual experience of now as an option. They can only imagine the non-conceptual conceptually.

The value is an experience of supreme peace, a calm and peaceful demeanor, no conflict experienced within or without, no fear, no stress, no reactionary mind. It's higher in the sense it is harmonious, compassionate, emphatic, non-judgmental etc. It's free of self caused suffering, an expansive pleasurable way to be. One can find pleasure though the ways of the mind as well, through identification with mental activities and body, and that's fine too. Our discernment is refined though experiences and many lives. Eventually we all get to the same place.

[sentient]

Originally Posted by Phaelyn

Discernment of a choice only exists if we are aware such a choice exists. It's possible some are not aware of a non-conceptual experience of now as an option. They can only imagine the non-conceptual conceptually.

True - me thinks.

Originally Posted by Phaelyn

The value is an experience of supreme peace, a calm and peaceful demeanor, no conflict experienced within or without, no fear, no stress, no reactionary mind. It's higher in the sense it is harmonious, compassionate, emphatic, non-judgmental etc. It's free of self caused suffering, an expansive pleasurable way to be.

Imo. this is like ‘connecting’ or staying in the simplicity of the primordial space – but the first stage.

From there the ‘connection’ - or the utter simplicity becomes more definite as we discover ‘energy’ - a kind of movement happening within the primordial 'space neutralness’ or 'vastness' before it moves into the 'phenomenal display' and the ways the (local - or relative reference point) mind in conceptual terms interprets it ....

*

Originally Posted by Phaelyn

So then close the book, let go of ideas, be here now as it is, experience the wonder of the moment and yourself, free of all the mental thinking stuff. But it all has value, even the getting lost in words in a certain way. The words can point to the wordless.

Sounds like mental gymnastics

[sky]

Originally Posted by janielee

Sounds like mental gymnastics

Originally Posted by Phaelyn
So then close the book, let go of ideas, be here now as it is, experience the wonder of the moment and yourself, free of all the mental thinking stuff. But it all has value, even the getting lost in words in a certain way. The words can point to the wordless.



All of the above seems contradictory... it's full of ideas and words .

I don't do gymnastics, waste of energy

I prefer simplicity.

Simple in actions and thoughts, you return to the source of being. Lao Tzu....

[Phaelyn]

Originally Posted by sky123

it's full of ideas and words

What post isn't?

[sky]

Originally Posted by Phaelyn

What post isn't?

Yes I do use words but I don't continue to Post about not using words etc

I can't communicate with most people without using words.

Traditionally Suttas start with “Thus I have heard”, you can't hear without words that are spoken

[Phaelyn]

Originally Posted by sky123

I don't continue to Post about not using words etc

I can't communicate with most people without using words.
Traditionally Suttas start with “Thus I have heard”, you can't hear without words that are spoken

You just did.

[Phaelyn]

Listen in the sense without any interference, without any interpretation, conclusion, like and dislike, you know all that takes place, what happens when I actually listen? Krishnamurti

https://jkrishnamurti.org/content/art-listening

[sentient]

Originally Posted by Phaelyn

Listen in the sense without any interference, without any interpretation, conclusion, like and dislike, you know all that takes place, what happens when I actually listen? Krishnamurti

https://jkrishnamurti.org/content/art-listening

The very first Aboriginal Elder I was fortunate to meet spoke in such a very quiet voice and with such deep respect that he was like a ‘hypnotist’, who made you very relaxed … and before you knew it you had shifted into silent non-dual communication with him.

That is what the absence of a dual wall does.

The High Lamas who visited Central Australia did not fail to recognize this, so they stressed it over and over again, that we should learn from these local Elders first and foremost:
https://www.creativespirits.info/abo...tening-dadirri

*

P.S. One of the things you didn’t mention in your list:

Originally Posted by Phaelyn
The value is an experience of supreme peace, a calm and peaceful demeanor, no conflict experienced within or without, no fear, no stress, no reactionary mind. It's higher in the sense it is harmonious, compassionate, emphatic, non-judgmental etc. It's free of self caused suffering, an expansive pleasurable way to be.

Is that once one renunciates … one really starts to lose interest in comparing oneself to others …

*

[JustBe]

Originally Posted by Phaelyn

Listen in the sense without any interference, without any interpretation, conclusion, like and dislike, you know all that takes place, what happens when I actually listen? Krishnamurti

https://jkrishnamurti.org/content/art-listening

(In answer to the question above)


I listen.