does sin corrupt our logic

[Morpheus]

Originally Posted by inspirit

Sin isn't the lower nature. That's just being human. Sin is when you choose to embrace evil. When you know that something is wrong and you choose it anyway.

Committing a crime in your heart is obviously a bad thing but it's only sin when you've chosen it after coming to the full understanding and acknowledgement that it is bad. In other words, committing a crime in your heart is only a sin if you know that it is wrong and it is deliberate.

Jesus said, "Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect." He said that because we do have a choice. When you understand the difference between right and wrong, choose right otherwise you will be committing sin.

Perhaps we are just arguing over semantics. What I consider sin though is a choice of doing bad even though you fully understand that what you are doing is wrong. I think you consider sin just anything bad. Yes it's human nature to do bad things but that's because humans make mistakes. It's human nature. Not because humans are predisposed to choosing evil over good when they are fully informed and understand the ramifications of their actions.

Interesting perspective. Especially when scripture makes clear, Old Testament and New, that,
"ALL HAVE SINNED, and fallen short of the glory of God".
A statement that most Christians don't fully understand. In that it infers that once, there was unity of all things with God.
Humanity is a fallen situation. Few though think to ask, " Fallen from what?"
Like everything else, humanity's origins lie in Spirit, and, the angelic.
Apart from, " illusory" time and space.

A circumstance that is affirmed in a number of ways in scripture. This is why I don't need to know you personally, to know you are a sinner. We are all in the same boat.
We are found in this "Matrix", in time and space because of a change and fall. The greater reality and Truth being eternity, and the timeless.

Physics confirms this also, in telling us what matter and "solidity" really is. Namely, "Illusory".

Jesus, the perfect atoning, and passover lamb, didn't
go to the cross merely for errant and sinful acts and behavior, but, for the fallen CONDITION of humanity! A condition which you also share.

The condition in which you are also found in. In this, "evolved", ( animal, mammal) organic situation, in "Illusory" space and time.

[Morpheus]

Jesus came to reveal God's nature to us, and then to go to the cross, because of THE CONDITION of humanity.
Not merely for individual acts and behavior.

Humanity finds itself in this evolved, organic animal/mammal situation having to do with a, "Fall".
Making this, "The Matrix".
Which is also validated in modern Physics today, involving the findings of time and space.

[antago]

Originally Posted by Pleroo

I don't think we are in disagreement at all. I think it is simply a matter of you and I each having a different emphasis in this exchange. I am fairly certain that I get where you're coming from -- that your emphasis is on the vital importance of what you believe Jesus was working to accomplish. I don't disagree with you that Jesus may have needed to be forceful in his approach. Or that we may need to be. I simply don't think that a person in complete harmony with the idea that the Father of us all is LOVE, would cultivate an emotion of despising any person, or was encouraging others to cultivate that emotion towards others. That has been my emphasis, and I don't think you are disagreeing with that. So, I think we're good.

I've studied mankind my entire life as a shaman. The only people I have ever encountered to dismiss the evil in the world as, "love & accept everyone" are people who are committing the worst intentions, like explicit rapists, prostitutes, cut-throat business men, & heroin addicts who are giving people diseases (and I kid you not) under the spell of kindness & image. It is deliberately an excuse to avoid all accountability, healing, and to force others to accept traumas and move moment to moment as if nothing happened.

I personally don't believe in God anymore. I was once a prophet, but I got tired of listening to God dismiss others for hurting me as "necessary" and "a friend" I must now let go of. Even when I was raped by deception in relationships where I demanded monogamy as a stipulation; there was always some excuse as to why it was okay for them to utterly annihilate my heart, while life dragged on mercilessly with others exploiting my sorrow.

I wrote some of my best poetry out of it, and it became clear that God doesn't really love anyone. People are given happiness to convince them reality is okay—to keep society in bounds. People are given suffering so God can eat up the truth of right & wrong, and get art of you.

I've come to hate everyone & everything, and again God, rather than giving any justice on anything whatsoever, simply nudged to "let it go" and referred to them as a friend and nothing intimate.

I don't believe in God. I don't love Him. I don't want Him. He is the giant predator in the sky who has conquered everything, and the notion that others are able to just shrug a lifetime of abuse, dismissal, robbery, rape, unfulfillment, and misery out of the way for a bit happy go-lucky philosophy is really just a predator's tale.

It suits those who have been given an easy ride; it suits God because He doesn't need anything, just a giant spell He casts to keep the world running however He sees fit regardless of how long you exist in the most utterly worthless, and terrible of circumstances—and no mater how hard you work.

Just give up on Him.

[Morpheus]

Sorry you've had hard experiences antago.
Nevertheless, you are mistaken. Why do you equate fallen humanity with God?

Or, "the god of this world", and, "age", with the true God, and Creator?
With Jesus?

[antago]

Originally Posted by Morpheus

Sorry you've had hard experiences antago.
Nevertheless, you are mistaken. Why do you equate fallen humanity with God?

Or, "the god of this world", and, "age", with the true God, and Creator?
With Jesus?

Thanks for your compassion. I love Jesus; of all the prophets, I truly & wholly love him. I say that, because I really do not because I have to. I read his words and he had a courage to see reality & justice for something beyond a paycheck or what everyone else was seeing.

But as it stands, God has the power to make life better, and yet my life has been absolutely terrible for no reason in the world to the point that I've been very suicidal & "homicidal". I say this not as something I plan to commit; I mean that is how angry & unhappy I've been at myself & abusers.

So, it doesn't matter whether God is something different than the "god of this world", because day after day after loooong grueling day, this KNOWLEDGE and my love for a DECEASED MAN are not paying my bills; they only taunt me with choices that go against pretty much everything & everyone around me. They aren't securing me with a spouse. They don't cuddle me at night with a warm hand. They don't fix the abuse. They don't cause the abusers to repent.

It doesn't intervene and deliver me justice—at all; it doesn't' take the pain away. It doesn't change the miserable moments when I have prayed to die, and die, and die. It doesn't save me from a growing rage in a cold world.

It doesn't drive a car. It doesn't speak with audible words to listen.

It doesn't kiss me. It doesn't feed my art with an audience.

It is simply an interesting piece of information, while all the riches, enjoyments, spoils, credit, and glory basically just get ate up by mundane, every day people who haven't a care. Once they're done with you, they tell you "you're sick & need help". They push you to insanity, then tell you to go to an asylum.

Why would I not equate the "god of this world & age" with God? If God is so great, and so real—then why are we under the spell of the "god of this age" almost all the time? It seems to me that God is like a dangling carrot to make prey out people for "the god of this age".

Believe it or not, people want to be happy; they need to be. You cannot be happy by believing that this "all powerful good being" is somehow real when pretty much every moment is "the bad god". Like, for real; it makes no sense.

What am I supposed to do with that information? Bow down and worship a ghost while evil people take over, and laugh it up on my & everyone else's dime? We live in the moment. We can spend our entire life talking about WHAT COULD BE, but how is that going to do anything for you?

So basically just live miserable, a joke—and then die … And someone else enjoys what you created & stood for AFTER YOU'RE DEAD. How is there any evidence that this isn't just another way that the big giant predator in the sky takes the power away from good people, and is using them for slaves?

They do the hard work, get treated like trash—then they die, and "the god of this world" lives it up by "glorifying them" for little historical barbies in his dream house of torture. Then what? Every one of his slaves continue to read about his barbies who were treated like trash their entire life, and then the "god of this world" gets to enjoy all the fruits of their labor without ever really compensating or empowering anyone other than himself.

Don't you think people who die for courage are the ones who want power the most? The ones who deserve & NEEEED it? Yet, they are almost always the ones who never get it. We have this notion that burning their life efforts in a book in history somehow means something; like, being talked about in third-person is the same as happiness. I don't know. Maybe it is. But I see no evidence that after you die you aren't just going to stop existing, or be reincarnated in another nightmare to keep the dangling carrot going.

[antago]

Normally I would immediately repent of this, and I am sorry to have to say it. But I can't keep living by faith anymore when I have these thoughts. I have to discuss them.

[Morpheus]

"Death is only an experience in which you are to learn a great lesson. You cannot die." - Yogananda

The Truth just is. God is Truth.

What is it you don't understand about "The Matrix", antago? - "Mundane people get by carefree"? That your attitude? You don't read, or hear the News much?
Maybe you think the wealthy are without their problems, and issues?

So, you think you are alone? Deserve the right to feel sorry for yourself?

Not that you give two squats but you realize that there are believers who are persecuted, chased from their homes, murdered?

Sorry this world isn't a paradise for you. Maybe what you need is to refocus.
I could, let me tell you, whine and moan also about my experiences in life.
Let me tell you.
The question here is, how committed were you originally to the Truth?

Jesus stated, "If the world hate you, know that it hated me first."
Also, that those who are friends with the world are at emnity with God.

People have these damn strange ideas.

But, perhaps you weren't invested enough in the Word to begin with, to have read those verses already.

What are you doing here, in the Christian forum, man? Listen to yourself.

[antago]

Originally Posted by Morpheus

"Death is only an experience in which you are to learn a great lesson. You cannot die." - Yogananda

The Truth just is. God is Truth.

What is it you don't understand about "The Matrix", antago? - "Mundane people get by carefree"? That your attitude? You don't read, or hear the News much?
Maybe you think the wealthy are without their problems, and issues?

So, you think you are alone? Deserve the right to feel sorry for yourself?

Not that you give two squats but you realize that there are believers who are persecuted, chased from their homes, murdered?

Sorry this world isn't a paradise for you. Maybe what you need to refocus.

I am the end times judge. You have no idea what I've been through.

[Morpheus]

Perspectives are everything. Even science validates and confirms this today.
Jesus said so.

He also is your Redeemer, Who came for you.
For your sake.

The "overcoming" perspectives are revealed in God's Word.

Also, what is the world? It is the illusion, when compared with a greater reality and Truth.

[davidmartin]

antago,
this world might be hell, but what if there is a way out? would you explore it?
I'm not leading up to saying what the way out is, I know what worked for me and it was hard as nuts, but it seems to me you don't think there is a way out?
I think that is a conclusion that is forced on us, to stop us looking by the oppressive bulk of society. But life becomes more interesting when you start hitting on pieces of treasure and you can wander off into the bushes down strange paths no-ones ever been and explore. sure, you may die probably will actually, but theres a chance you might not and at least it will be an adventure. that what got me motivated when it turned out the people professing to know the way out, actually didn't know even though some of them were quite nice people.