unoffendable

Originally Posted by blackfellawhitefella

there's some things i wanna say , re your questions ... but i had a big 'personal expression' type of convo with daz the other night , and i'm feeling a bit like theres too much of 'my' sh!te around boring people to death

but i will , for the question actually made me stop in my tracks and contemplate.

blessings to you and yours mate.

Spider senses were telling me they might, but did not know how much.
Whenever you're ready bfwf is absolutely fine with me.
If and when you do share, looking forward to hearing it all.

Sound. Not forgotten. Will read and reply asap.

Thank you for the labor of love AC :). I am working on reading through it <3

Originally Posted by Sound

Its interesting isn't it ... what occurred for me was that I worried others would attribute my skinniness to illness, possibly mental as well as physical. Because i was aware of the emotional/psychological problems associated with Anorexia Nervosa it bothered me that others would think I was 'suffering' in that way, when in fact i was quite comfortable in my skin and did not have any issues with body image outside of those that most people experience during their teens. I danced (ballet) for many years so that kept the weight down and, as opposing as it was, I also smoked for many years which was obviously a contributing factor ... my metabolism was extremely rapid. I had all sorts of tests done and nothing come of it ...

I like your "what occured to me...". You had a moment of self realisation, or a realisation of somethng in your life.

I had an incident, in my 20's.
Just began driving off to work. Doing 60klm in the 60 zone.
One of the fun driving games I would play at that time would be to change to the designated speedlimit right at the sign. A game of precision.
I was coming up to an 80 sign. I continued to drive at 60 k, but as soon as I reached the 80 sign, I quickly sped up to 80.
Just as I looked up from the dash, a car was in the process of overtaking me as it finished getting in front of me.

I thought nothing of it, but then the guy gave me the finger.
Huh? Why is this guy givng me the finger? I don't know him, so it's not a friend mucking about. I kept to my side of the road.
Why is he pinged off at me?

Ohh...he must have just begun to overtake at the same time I quickly sped up.
This guy is assuming I sped up on purpose to thwart his desire to get in front.
I wanted the opportunity to face this accusation and clear my name.
I did not want this person to retain the incorrect thought/belief that I was a jerk.
I did not get that opportunity, and so I had to deal with thoughts and feelings that there is a guy out there that thinks I am a jerk.
I knew I wasn't a jerk(in that situation). I did not see he was behind me when I sped up, but I was still worried about what he thought, and I could do nothing about it.

In your situation, or similar situations, there is an opportunity to clear the matter up...discussion can be had.
You: "Do you think I have Anorexia Nervosa?"
You may get anywhere from an open and honest discussion to a beeping sound coming from the other as they back away.
( I must admit, the beeping sound of people backing away is most fun to observe)

But what is most common in my interactions with people thus far, is many people do not go to the stage of communication.
Instead, one assumes and then base their judgements/conclusions/beliefs, thus their perception and responses to life, on that information.
This is fertile soil for paranoia to grow. "What are they thinking of me" is thought, because that's what we humans do.
We think, so we assume others are thinking of us, observing, evaluating, concluding.

But there is something else that humans can do. We can ask what another is thinking.
Instead of assuming all manner of things, we can actually know. Bye bye paranoia.
Understanding why self does not ask, or why self does not answer(avoids the question, or gives un untruthful answer) is vital to creating a healthy inner life.

I feel totally comfortable to respond AC ... thank you for being interested
I always 'pig' out both when i am at home and out and about ... it was a standing joke among my family ... when i would visit my parents my father would say 'I dont get it ... the fridge is empty and yet she turns around sideways and you think she has gone home' hehe ... I have always loved food ... eating out i was probably inclined to eat more because the food is often different and more interesting than what I can be bothered to cook for myself at home most nights ... I think my paranoia came about due to the particular type of (training) session it was and i was noticeably the thinnest person in the room.

I can picture the scene of your father saying that like it's from a feel good light hearted comedy of life and love.
Reading that line again and again still brings a smile to my face. A magical moment.

Re: the situation at the training session.
It reminds me of a concept in the context of a phase of homophobia that was in the world.
Many in the gay community used this, not all of them, but enough to grab my attention.
If a straight guy says anything negative about being gay,
the gay guy would say, "This is proof that deep down you are gay but are repressing it.", or some sort of variation of that.
The old, 'denying something is proof you are guilty' thing.

This dsyfunctional way of thinking was brilliantly portrayed in The Life of Brian.

A crowd was growing in confidence that he was the messiah. He knew he wasn't and shared this info with them.
A don't recall exactly how the scene went, but there was a lengthy exchange of words where Brian would either deny he was the Messiah or give reason why he wasn't.
The crowd, upon each utterance from Brian, simply became more convinced he was the Messiah.

Brian was becoming more and more frustrated at the illogical thinking of the crowd.
He yelled at them in exasperation, "Look, I am not the messiah !"
To which the clincher for the crowd was spoken by a woman, "Only the true Messiah denies his divinity!"

~laughs~ Poor ol' Brian, now lost in the madness of the moment, thinks and says,
"What? Well what kind of chance does that give me(to prove my innocence of the claim)? Alright.. I am the Messiah !"
~laughs~ Python are so insightful... as most comedians are.

I envision you're at the training session and you calmly inform the group that in case anyone was wondering, you are not anorexic, you simply have a much slender body that the average.
To which some would confront you of your denial issues and that they truely care and want to help you.

Maybe this is also a reason why people are closed off from each other and do not openly share.
What is the point of saying anything or discussing an issue when others can't hear you over the sound of their own conclusions of you.
But if open discussion does not happen, there will be false beliefs created, of self and others.
And who is the most important person one can have an open discussion with?

That is a very healthy question lol ... what has changed for me is the realization that what others think doesn't change my truth ... also I come to realize that there is a difference between worrying about something and simply thinking about it ... worrying seems to create some sort of eddy or whirlpool of thoughts whereas simply allowing thoughts to come and go seems to lead us into new territory of understanding. I still find myself worrying a little from time to time, however I identify it for what it is sooner rather than later these days ...

Ourself.
~standing ovation~ Bravo, Sound...bravo !

[sound]

AC you are a legend ... you take so much time with people ... like others have expressed ... i will take time to read, reflect and respond ... thank you kindly

Originally Posted by arive nan

Thank you for the labor of love AC :). I am working on reading through it <3

You're most welcome arive.
Please note you are under no obligation to respond to all or anything I have written.
Just knowing you have read all of it is satisfaction enough for me.

Originally Posted by sound

AC you are a legend ... you take so much time with people ... like others have expressed ... i will take time to read, reflect and respond ... thank you kindly

Over the course of my life, especially these last 3 years, it has come to my attention that people are extremely valuable and worth my time.
One of the profound wonders and joys of life is to hang out with others.
Why, because people are so beautiful and amazing !

~laughs~ Then he shares a story about hangin' out with a dog.
But, fear not, it is relevant to hangin' with people.
I actually forgot to post this last time I was on.



Bobby
Bobby is my mum's dog, whom I affectionately call Little Biscuit Barrel because his body shape is as if he swallowed a barrel.
Both mum's dogs have come from Animal Rescue and both have deep inner wounds.
Maggie has issues as well, but I'll focus on Bobby.

From day one, Bobby would not come near me. If I was in a room, he would not enter it.
If he was in the room and I entered, in a frightened state, he would instantly run away.
If he couldn't get around me, he would cower, and his amount of recoil would be in proportion to my distance from him.

Mum relayed the story of how Bobby's previous owner, a male, would beat him daily.

You know the look of a person eyes when they are crying or have been crying?
This is the constant look in Bobby's eyes. This is what I see when I look into his eyes, profound constant inner crying.

Each day I would speak lovingly to both dogs.
It took a week for Maggie to feel comfortable enough for me to pat her. This allowed Bobby to let me get closer to him.
But the look of terror in his body language and in his eyes as I gently put my hand toward him conveyed to me how deep his wounds are.
I knew this was going to be a long road of recovery for him.
Patience and understanding, adjusting myself to his pace but also daily taking the initiative of building a relationship.

I've been living with my mum for 5 months now and last week was the first time Bobby came up to me for a hello and a pat.
He still gingerly avoids me when we are outside. I suspect outside is where he received most of his beatings.
A month ago, he would run away from me outside, now, he still has some fear if he's having a bad day.
Some days he gingerly avoids me or is wary of me, and some days I see a glimmer of happiness as I bend down to pat him.
I must still maintain a calm and quiet posture around him.

During these 5 months of effort it would be easy to become frustrated at Bobby's attitude toward my expressions of love for him,
especially if I compared his progress against Maggie's.
If I came into mum's room, Bobby would try to bite me.
As Maggie and I got closer, she would enjoy more rough play and again, bobby would try to bite me.
I could give Bobby a nice rub inside the house, yet the very next second, outside, he would avoid me.
All that effort with little reward.

Being unoffendable removes all those unproductive thoughts and feelings and enables me to joyfully, calmly and patiently continue my task of healing.
Bobby is self healing, but I am creating an environment conducive of healing. Such is the power of unoffendability.

My brother, in contrast, simply reacts to Bobby's attitude/behavior.
Bobby avoids all males, so my brother, taking it personally, feels rejected or whatever he's thinking/feeling and concludes Bobby is not worth knowing/liking.
"If Bobby was this instead of that, then I would like him, If Bobby didn't make me mad, I would like him more, he would be a good dog." type thinking.

Just like the profound line from What The Bleep, "If thoughts can do that to water, imagine what our thoughts can do to us."...
If being unoffendable can help heal a dog, imagine what being unoffendable can do for another person's healing.
Then, take that one more step...imagine what being unoffended of oneself will do for one's own healing.

Can you see the connection of being unoffended and unconditionally loving something/someone?

[sound]

Originally Posted by AC

I like your "what occurred to me...". You had a moment of self realization, or a realization of something in your life.

True … sometimes realization can occur, however, the solution (to a perceived 'problem') may not always appear on the horizon at the same time. That can mean experiencing a certain level of anxiety until one can let go of old beliefs which don’t align with new understandings. Accompanying dialogue may go something like ...' I know it isn't helping me but i just cant seem to stop myself' ...

I can relate in regards to your speed limit story. I used to experience incredibly high levels of fear around being misunderstood or misinterpreted. I worried about how that caused people to see me in a light which I, myself found to be ‘oppositional’ I suppose, is the word I am looking for. We are unusual creatures aren’t we … I have realized though, through experience, (in relation to myself of course), that often times light will be shed 'through' our thoughts and indeed increase our understandings because of that, without needing to actualize those situations etc. does that make sense AC? Lots of running commentary (of mind) in the process of course … and it is almost as if we ‘live our thoughts’ sometimes in a subconscious effort to self preserve lol that scenario obviously works on the premise of ‘less (actualized)pain, more gain lol that paragraph turned into a rant of sorts didn’t it … you (silently) give folk permission to explore stuff which may, at first, seem significantly insignificant … that is your gift in a sense I reckon Mr AC

Originally Posted by AC

In your situation, or similar situations, there is an opportunity to clear the matter up...discussion can be had.
You: "Do you think I have Anorexia Nervosa?"
You may get anywhere from an open and honest discussion to a beeping sound coming from the other as they back away.
(I must admit, the beeping sound of people backing away is most fun to observe)

Most definitely and, in recent times, I have found the confidence to address ‘pending’ issues (non related to the thinness thing) in exactly that manner … I tend to use a little humor to support what it is I am attempting to extrapolate lol

Originally Posted by AC

[But] what is most common in my interactions with people thus far, is many people do not go to the stage of communication.
Instead, one assumes and then base their judgments/conclusions/beliefs, thus their perception and responses to life, on that information.
This is fertile soil for paranoia to grow. "What are they thinking of me" is thought, because that's what we humans do.
We think, so we assume others are thinking of us, observing, evaluating, concluding.
But there is something else that humans can do. We can ask what another is thinking.
Instead of assuming all manner of things, we can actually know. Bye bye paranoia.

Yes … and even when an honest answer is not forthcoming, chances are it will encourage self reflection at some point … from both perspectives of course …

Originally Posted by AC

I can picture the scene of your father saying that like it's from a feel good light hearted comedy of life and love.
Reading that line again and again still brings a smile to my face. A magical moment.

I find myself smiling too when I think about it many years down the track,however it used to annoy me no end back then … I used to think ‘I don’t make the same old joke about your bloody boisterous and outspoken manner being felt for days after you do actually do go home’ hahaha .. I loved him dearly though ... he was fun and spontaneous and rugged and loved playing the devils advocate ... another thing he drummed into us ... he always used to tell us "Don't think yourself any better, but certainly don't think yourself any worse' :)

Originally Posted by AC

Re: the situation at the training session.
It reminds me of a concept in the context of a phase of homophobia that was in the world.
Many in the gay community used this, not all of them, but enough to grab my attention.
If a straight guy says anything negative about being gay,
the gay guy would say, "This is proof that deep down you are gay but are repressing it.", or some sort of variation of that.
The old, 'denying something is proof you are guilty' thing.

Great example … and also that old 'if you defend yourself then you must be guilty' of whatever it is that has been highlighted.

Originally Posted by AC

~standing ovation~ Bravo, Sound...bravo !

Hehe … likewise AC accompanied by a thousand thank yous’

I am still reading through the posts. I’ve had some thoughts about it so far. And since it will be a while before I read through it all I figured I’d post a description of what I see in my mind so far, for those who want to take a look around it. Sorry for all the mess, though. There are lots of things in here that I can’t make heads nor tails of either...

Anyhow, there was a short period time in my life when I was someone who I could like and my own thoughts made sense to me. I was a mess when growing up, but over the years I put myself together the way I wanted. I keep trying to organize my mind enough to get back to that. One problem is that the structure of that organization rested a foundation that included the belief everyone is capable of learning to have more compassion and kindness and therefore more happiness. Then I witnessed some realities that contradicted this belief too much. With that gone, everything that was built upon it fell apart. I’ve been trying to pick up the pieces ever since. Now there are so many different parts of my mind disagreeing with each other about so many things, but they almost all seem to share the opinion that there is not much to like about me.

I was aware that the void left where my belief that there is hope for everyone used to be was a major source of my problems. I revisit this occasionally to try to figure out some solution, but I just come across the same irreconcilable differences between different parts of my mind. What complicates this more than anything is the existence of classical narcissists. Of course, it was a narcissist who wounded me pretty badly, among others. Looking at it objectively, there is currently no solid proof either way that narcissists can get better. Only one person, who has no expert background, claims that some have recovered from the disorder, which is entirely anecdotal. I can find hardly anything written by an actual expert in the field of psychology about this question. Most of the information, even on health web sites, comes from one narcissist with a pretend degree he bought on some web site. There’s really not much reliable information out there. So for now it comes down to what I want to believe and what I am able to believe.

On the one hand, while I had the belief that there is hope for everyone it worked quite well as a base to support a more organized and healthy mind. That should be evidence that there could be truth in it. On the other hand, it wasn’t strong enough to stand up to certain realities that seemed to contradict this belief. It took more energy to keep holding on to it in spite of what I had witnessed. That is evidence that it could be wrong. But without it, everything that I had built upon it fell apart. I can’t build anything on hopelessness, even if it is only partial hopelessness for about 1% of humanity. Things I used to know and understand back then no longer make sense to me. I wrote about them a lot, but now I can’t understand my own writings from that time. So we are back to some evidence that the belief could be right. Still, I have seen and experienced things that make it very difficult to believe that this 1% of the population has any chance of getting past their delusions at all. Hope for 99% is not enough to be able to understand what I used to understand that gave me peace. *looks around my mind...* This place is a disaster.

I remember that I wasn’t of the opinion that people choose to feel hurt when back I was healthier. Looking back at some old writings, I had explored the belief that pain is willingly chosen for a while, but then found that it did not make sense and I was better off without it. This did not mean that people can’t find a way to prevent the reaction of suffering or hurting when certain things happen. But I found that believing that suffering and hurt is willingly chosen brought me further away from the truth instead of closer to it. I treated hurt feelings as something that happens naturally when people do not thoroughly understand what is going on with them or the other people involved. Believing that it is always chosen even when people don’t know what is going on exactly would not make sense would complicate the process of overcoming it for me. So I replaced it with the theory that hurt happens naturally although it can be prevented with the right understanding. This seemed to have been working at the time, and I think it would work again if I could relearn how to understand the stuff that needs to be understood.

However, there is the problem that I still don’t entirely understand the things I used to understand that made people seem less offensive even whey they were trying to offend. Some of the same people who I used to be explaining these things to are currently better at it than I am now, both because they got better and I got worse. I see them being much more calm about something that I feel incensed by and saying that the person is just scared or not right in the head and I find myself wishing I could be that wise. Then I remember that I used to be and I was saying the same sort of things to them years ago. Being aware that people hurt others because they are hurting and concentrating on that awareness was part of that understanding. It has been lying around here in the clutter of my mind somewhere, forgotten and neglected and buried under debris. It helps a bit to excavate that and see what I can still do with it.