Imagination / Real / Unreal

Originally Posted by andrew g

It seems that you are saying that imagination itself is not imaginary i.e that imagination (but not the content of it) exists, is actual and real, yes?

Im really sensitive to taking over this thread with this stuff by the way, so Im not going to enquire much more.

To avoid taking over the karma thread, I will answer here. Everybody, please feel free to take over with any other topic.

Andrew: none of those words have a fixed/real meaning. Imagination is an imaginary part of 'being.' It's imaginary because 'being' is indivisible.

[andrew g]

Originally Posted by Portto

To avoid taking over the karma thread, I will answer here. Everybody, please feel free to take over with any other topic.

Andrew: none of those words have a fixed/real meaning. Imagination is an imaginary part of 'being.' It's imaginary because 'being' is indivisible.

Here was the lead up to this.

Andrew = If all thats imagined, what are you suggesting isnt imagined then?

Portto - Whatever is left when imagination stops.
Obviously, I can't describe it in words.

....It seems that here you are saying that there IS an imagination that stops and starts and therefore this imagination exists, is real and actual.

Or are you saying that the imagination that imagines stuff is also imaginary and that 'being' is the only thing that actually exists? In which case, if being is the ONLY thing that exists, what is all this thats happening here? If 'being' is the only thing that exists, there would be none of this talk of 'imagination'.

And are you sure that this 'it' that cannot be put into words is real? How do you know?

Real and unreal appear in 'it', yet you ask whether it is real.
Imagination doesn't imagine anything. Imagination is something that appears to be.
All that's happening here is that one being.

[andrew g]

Originally Posted by Portto

Real and unreal appear in 'it', yet you ask whether it is real.
Imagination doesn't imagine anything. Imagination is something that appears to be.
All that's happening here is that one being.

Is all thats happening real? Or is all thats happening content of imagination? In which case, is imagination real?

Does this 'it' exist? Is it actual? Whats the difference between this 'it' and 'one being'?

Perhaps I could get clearer on this if you tell me exactly what you are saying is real/exists/actual. If you say that all other stuff is imaginary, then that also suggests that the imagination is real (but the content is not)

Are you asking 'real' questions, or are you trying to see if I'm attached to the meaning of certain words?

[andrew g]

Originally Posted by Portto

Are you asking 'real' questions, or are you trying to see if I'm attached to the meaning of certain words?

Im trying to understand what you think is real, actual, exists and what doesnt (i.e. what is imaginary). Suggesting that something is imaginary or imagined means that at the very least, the imagination/mind is real.

Real/unreal & imaginary/existing dance together in being.

Some stuff appears as real, some other doesn't.

[andrew g]

Originally Posted by Portto

Real/unreal & imaginary/existing dance together in being.

Some stuff appears as real, some other doesn't.

Ok. So you think being is real....ok.

And then some stuff appears as real, but isnt actually real? What stuff appears as real but isnt actually real? Does the human individuation appear as real but isnt actually real? Does the sun appear as real but isnt actually real?

If they are not actually real, are they imaginary. So is imagination itself real?

And then you say that some OTHER stuff doesnt appear as real or is actually real. I guess you are thinking that Father Christmas (for example) doesnt appear as real nor is actually real. Yet the imagination itself that imagines Father Christmas must be real, yes?

It sounds to me that what you are saying in summary is that only being is real, and that appearances/things/stuff are not, but some appearances/things/stuff are even less real than not real. Am I misinterpreting?

[genga]

I haven't quite followed the discussion but I thought of giving my two cents. As it appears to me you must first come to an understanding of how you both define the word "real".

Personally I think of real in terms of everything that can be defined in consciousness or in the imagination. In short thoughts are what reality is. The stuff that most consider real are usually things outside of the imagination things that can be perceived by the five senses but they fail to see that these things still have their origin in the imagination and without the imagination's ability to imagine them these stuff wouldn't exist. Also take for instance this computer, it can be seen as real because of it's physical attributes but if we look deeper into it's initial conception we see that it first had it's existence in form of an idea a vision in the imagination that's where its roots are planted. And then it was brought forth into a material form by the bringing and mechanically piecing together different components of other stuff...

[andrew g]

Originally Posted by genga

I haven't quite followed the discussion but I thought of giving my two cents. As it appears to me you must first come to an understanding of how you both define the word "real".

Personally I think of real in terms of everything that can be defined in consciousness or in the imagination. In short thoughts are what reality is. The stuff that most consider real are usually things outside of the imagination things that can be perceived by the five senses but they fail to see that these things still have their origin in the imagination and without the imagination's ability to imagine them these stuff wouldn't exist. Also take for instance this computer, it can be seen as real because of it's physical attributes but if we look deeper into it's initial conception we see that it first had it's existence in form of an idea a vision in the imagination that's where its roots are planted. And then it was brought forth into a material form by the bringing and mechanically piecing together different components of other stuff...

'Real' - exists.

So, if something is believed to be real, it is believed to exist.