Removing or not needing Chakras?

Originally Posted by Carnate

Again, I see chakra removal as being an act that is highly damaging spiritually.. as a result, any recommendation to follow through with this act would not come from the Light or Source.

Thank you. This implies that at least you are willing to consider that chakra removal is a possibility. Wether damaging or not is a different discussion, One I am more than willing to have if can bare my conversational style. Up until now I has the impression you didn't think it was possible at all which sort of undermined any open discussion about the possibilities, implications and reason to come to such an act.

As they say one mans heaven is another mans hell.

I see you're trying to see the removal now as some sort of final stage of the human experience.
May I opt that the human experience is timeless and therefor has no beginning or end. So one mans ending is another mans start. Without the need to call any stage along the path better or worse than another stage.

The way I understand enlightenment is that it is a realization of something that is already present.Not something to be conquered just to be understood.

With Love
Eelco

[Uma]

Originally Posted by Carnate

The main difference, as she explains it, is that chakra removal is more of an 'end game' objective rather than one that should be performed while residing in a physical body.

no no no no no no no I would never say that

I would say...

WE CANNOT "REMOVE" CHAKRAS while residing in a physical body.
and
WE CANNOT "REMOVE" CHAKRAS while residing in an astral body.

To have the ability to exist with an "I"/ego in a dimension without chakras, one would be a Buddha, a Christ or a Krishna. Anybody claiming that distinction on this forum I will run away from screaming.

By the way, chakras are also called "lokas" - they are portals to other dimensions. The earth dimension we live in is the root chakra. We live in the root chakra of God.

I've said my 2¢ and now I don't want to participate on this thread anymore.

YES WE CAN!

God what is it that makes the it so hard. Chakras are things that apart from a small group of people no one had ever heard of or experienced a century ago.
Buddha was a human being. Yes he found a way to freedom, but he was a man as is stated in the sutras again and again. Jesus christ was a human being. We know this to be true. I will admit that both of these men had found a way to love and be free that exceeds the possibilities of many a human being. Still they both promised it was available for all of us in this lifetime.

That said I am no jesus or buddha. But I am no slave to some imposed relatively young chakra based energy system just because it has become popular belief and is visible through the 100th monkey effect.

I don't care how hard anyone screams it cannot be done.
I know different and wil continue to say it again and again as long as this mass deception is in place.

With Love
Eelco

[Carnate]

Originally Posted by Uma

WE CANNOT "REMOVE" CHAKRAS while residing in a physical body.
and
WE CANNOT "REMOVE" CHAKRAS while residing in an astral body.
.

hehe, I agree.. I was using a specific phrasing to be respectful of those who didn't hold similar values.

... As we've seen from the response above.


For this thread, we have to be careful when discussing our knowledge/beliefs. Any time we say things in absolute terms (based on our knowledge or experience), it's often taken as an imposition of those beliefs on other people. While this may be true in some respects.. it's not really our intention to force other people to accept our words at face value. We're hoping to share the knowledge we have rather than push other people to accept it.

[Carnate]

Originally Posted by catsquotl

God what is it that makes the it so hard. Chakras are things that apart from a small group of people no one had ever heard of or experienced a century ago.

I think you've got the wrong idea. There are sections of the bible that explain chakras and how we make use of them.

I've been reluctant to show this link.. because I find the presenter highly annoying, but he provides detailed information. Rather than give you one that discusses chakras as a whole, I'm going to provide one that focuses on the third eye because it incorporates more links to the bible (and other holy texts). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuxntX7Emzk

Hi.

I'm not gonna watch an hour of this I am sorry.I took a look at his website. If you can point me to a transcript I'm more than happy to skim through that. Although the pineal gland and pine cone symbolism does not equal 6th chakra as far as I am concerned. I know the pineal gland and the way it is used as a 3d eye. The gland provides that possibility and is independent of any chakra as fat as I am concerned..

I'm off to bed.
See ya'll later. Play nice now ok?

With Love
Eelco

[slowsnake]

[quote=catsquotl]Lol..

In what universe did the buddha teach chakra meditation.
That said I know nothing. but then neither do you apparently. We can continue this ****ing contest for all were worth if you you like.
One of us is bound the get so bored with it and stop. Until then we can let everyone enjoy our mature responses..

Whatever happened to the levity you are so fond of using?
You should do your homework and ask or google what it is I am talking about. That way you may make less of a fool of yourself.

Ajahn Tong is a thai forrest monk. As is customary meditation retreats are dana based and thus affordable for one like me. Then research what vipassana is. specifically as it is thought in a mahasi sayadaw style.
Then come back and see how much of your rant is holding up.

I'll give you that I should act in a less provocative manner, but then I am very human, no where near as enlightened as I once hoped to be. Don't you find it odd that i am able to trigger all this resentment in you just because I say I believe I removed my chakra and won't listen to your 13 a dozen statements about what you think I ought to believe about those very chakras?

I am dead Serious.
With Love
Eelco[/QUdark,

Hello Angry,
The Buddha's meditation underneath the bodhi tree was samartha meditation,in the 70's I used it to meditate on my breathing,but any point of concentration will do,even a nail in the wall,I suggested it to my eldest brother David who lives back home in " blighty ", he has had some bad luck with his health,a cancer in his tonsil that metastasised to his lymph nodes.
Now he's 69,a non smoker,social drinker and a 50 year long vegetarian, but he still got cancer,he could not tolerate 30 points of radiation, he stopped at 10,we do not have much contact,he and his wife and family do their own thing.
His wife emailed me about his state of mind as being very philosophical and wanting to try a holistic approach to healing.
I suggested Samartha as a meditation,as you can do it anywhere,and maybe Kriya Yoga,but he's his own man.

I told his wife I would pray for him every night which I do at the side of my bed in the dark,funnily enough just the thought I sent out in that first prayer must of hit a nerve somewhere in the universe,because when I lay down to sleep in the pitch black bedroom,actually I could faintly see the out line of furniture, the cat Mr Moggs on my bed etc because of my LED clock!

Now every night I lay down to sleep,every night without fail for as long as I remember,I meditate on the space between my eyebrows, every night I do it,but,this night of my first prayer for my brother,and I asked God not to cure him,I asked God to give him peace of mind and guidance on the rough journey ahead of him.
In return,when I closed my eyes laying on my right side,my left side is crippled up a little bit,I did my normal closed eyelids,normally I see straight through them at night with everything tinged a pastel shade of rose,even my cat must wonder how I find his head in the dark with my eyes closed, it freaks him out.

Well as I said the usual cross eyed look up towards my brow tires me out and I get a light show evertime I go to bed at night I see a light show,vivid electric blue flashes across a vibrant shimmering background, or it turns into a pale yellow mist and I look at a moving video screen,I get this every night,without fail!
I already told you my kundalini and brow chakra were activated/opened/raised on my 28th birthday in 1981,and it was not my doing,it was done by external means,in other words an external force activated it and the serpent power.

So,as I am laying there waiting for the normal goodnight light show and strange white glow I get,always from the upper right and it slowly spreads down my forehead and I nod off,this night after my earnest prayer to God,asking to help my brother find peace of mind,well this was different,and I'd had it once before, and then after this time it happened again a month ago,so twice in 3 months.
Only this time I didn't nod off to sleep so I decided I would just stay awake,eyes closed and I get the usual purple,green yellow swirling mists,all pastel shades and as I I peering into this swirling mass I see a purple dot!.it has a smaller green dot in its centre and its expanding rapidly into an amoebic type shape/form,this light is getting brighter but subdued so its like daylight,I am rubbing my cats neck and its purring, then this purple/green shape turns into a flower,its pastel green with a purple tinge through it and on the edges,as the flower opens there is I little lady in there,she's dancing for me,at first I thought it was a Spanish flamenco dancer,the background was like the sun behind her,shining like gold, she is only an inch tall and 12 inches from my face,she stops dancing and stands up in the centre of the flower,she is Indian in a purple/indigo sari,she clasps her hands to her chin "namaste",she does not say anything and neither do i,the flower closes the light above/in my head turns to a gentle glow and I thank God and go to sleep.

It happened again a few weeks/month ago,exact same thing after an earnest prayer to God for my brother,but this time she brought 5 of her friends,after dancing for me they all moved into one lady,she did the namaste,I thanked God,and the light in my head turned down to a soft white gentle glow and I went to sleep.

Haven't seen her since,but I assume that God is telling me my prayer for my big brother David is working,and that's why I started meditating again,as moral support for David,nothing for me,I only ask for other folk,those who are maybe angry with God for their problem's.

Kind Regards Billy.

[Carnate]

Thanks for sharing, Billy. It's too often difficult for people to see benefit in helping others from 'behind the scenes'.

It's interesting that you mention sight while your eyes are closed.

I've been experiencing a similar thing. As you know, I've never been good at seeing the physical world with my third eye (as in, physical eyes closed), but over the last few months, I've improved in other areas.

Each night before I sleep, I do a similar chakra cleansing with a focus on my crown and third eye chakras. These days, every night, I see something akin to a (reasonably) lengthy movie. This isn't strictly in my minds-eye, because it fills the visual space of my physical eyes; if I open my eyes, the images overlay what I see in my room.

What I see varies a lot.. there are times when I see scenery. Just a huge and random range of images of mountains, cliffs, oceans, waterfalls, forests.. etc. Other times I'll see what appear to be stone carvings/writings; these flash by at the rate of about 2-3 every second, so I don't really get a chance to study or remember them. Other times it's people, faces, a series of events such as viewing a family who are in the outback in a mining community, or watching events in a busy city center where people go about their daily lives.

As I've continued my efforts, the images have become clearer. Now when I open up my crown chakra, my entire vision fills with white light, and then the images start showing up. They are often crystal clear with no blurred edges or obscured areas. I now look forward to these as it's a clear sign that I'm developing my skills, but also because it's that nice peaceful period that lets me drift off to sleep comfortably.. and normally, I have a lot of trouble sleeping.

[Melahin]

Originally Posted by catsquotl

Different maybe. Not necessarily more efficient.
The last few years I have come to realize that most consciousness is a conditioned state. Just like the Buddha describes when he talks about dependent co-arising. It also is not-self(annata), impermanent(annica) and inherently stressful(dhukka). But then acording to the sutta's almost every experience is.

Even though I trust the laws of Karma in a simple form. There is cause and there is the result of that cause I am having greater and greater doubts when it comes to the continuity of consciousness. I am starting to understand that consciousness arises new in each moment. Thus creating a new sense of self from moment to moment partially based on memories and the current state of everything.

So there is no better or worse. There is a deepening of insight in causes and how these causes shape consciousness. It is also why chakra can be there and cannot be there at the same time. It's a matter of perspective choice and arising co-depended consciousness.

All that has changed is that my consciousness based on a myriad of different causes from the past is no longer dependent on the chakra's.

I hope I didn't get to esotherical there. It's hard to put these concepts into words.

If I said that by removing the chakra I transended them that would be equally true were it not that transending often means growth towards better. That is not the case. There is no better or worse. More enlightened or less.

With Love
Eelco

Some of this sounds like what I know as zero point reality, that the present is continuously refreshed with what you fill it with. Now it would be nice if we from one moment to the other could completely change our belief, thus what we experience changes immediately. That is why practicing focusing on the aspects we want in our life is such a valuable practice, because it piece by piece changes the elements of our reality. I know that certain people disagree saying the past is very valuable, just not from a present point of view. It is old news and have served its purpose, and like we are fulfilled the moment we manifest into physical form, we equally are fulfilled in each and every moment, so there by that really is nothing for us to accomplish other than enjoy the freedom of our continued expansion. So though it arises new in each moment, it continuously arises from a more expanded place of origin. The question is only whether or not we are in alignment with this more expanded version that arises out of the previous moment.

I guess it might be hard for some people to grasp that there actually are beings far more advanced in this world than Jesus, Buddha and Krishna were.

Nature always strive towards what is most efficient, what is called either the path of least resistance or most allowance. It is not really a question of good or bad, just about efficiency. You do things because you believe it will make you happier, and happy is always easier than any other states of beingness. Not better, just more at ease, more fun to be part of... why else do we all desire to be happy if it was not because it just simply feels better?

I will invite you to not comment on posts that are not productive to the intention that we all have in this thread.

Originally Posted by Melahin

I will invite you to not comment on posts that are not productive to the intention that we all have in this thread.

I tried, but find I can't. I have a hard time ignoring the way they package respective foolishness as the sole truth out there. Most if not all forest tradition meditation teachers will caution anyone that starts to develop the visuals talked about in the last 2 posts. As they are a harmless side effect of meditation. Not something you would want to put the meaning of divine intervention to. But no I'm the one living in fantasy land.

Each time I intent to stop responding here I notice a new layer of deception I find difficult to let go. Take the way Billy asked not needing sympathy. Since then his real life's circumstances have taken a rather prominent stage. I do feel for his predicament, but that doesn't make his points about the existence of chakra or his understanding of meditation any more valid. Only now I am the heartless angry guy to come down on an old and possibly sick man.

Carnate on the other hand first tries to prove his point by saying he has some hidden ancient pre-internet knowledge Only to reluctantly share his sources which can be categorized as popular internet knowledge at best. Most of it not even in ways I at least haven't heard or seen in several ways.But calling him out on that is somehow come across as me being the angry jerk. I'd rather be argued with openly than respectfully ridiculed

Originally Posted by Carnate

... As we've seen from the response above.

On the rare occasions I did provide some theory, some experience and some data on how I came to my conclusion they were ignored completely. Now tell my why I should conduct myself in a civilized manner. When I am not shown the same courtesy.

Originally Posted by Melahin

Now it would be nice if we from one moment to the other could completely change our belief, thus what we experience changes immediately. That is why practicing focusing on the aspects we want in our life is such a valuable practice, because it piece by piece changes the elements of our reality.

It would be nice, but I believe it impossible on this earth at this time. The way I think reality on this 3d plane works is that it the cause needs time to manifest. It may very well because of past causes that need to manifest first. I am still fuzzy as my observations and experiences tell me that some things manifest quite easily while others take some time. That said The consensus here is that certain things are ordered a certain way. Can you imagine here that one day you are responsible as a father or mum for your child and the next you would have forgot and became something else?

I do believe that in the after life(just to give it an inadequate name) there are dimensions where changes like that will manifest instantly. And yes we would change as fast there too.

Originally Posted by Melahin

I guess it might be hard for some people to grasp that there actually are beings far more advanced in this world than Jesus, Buddha and Krishna were.

To be honest it's hard for me too. But that is because I don't think Jesus or Buddha were advanced. And Krishna was something else all together. From a certain perspective they did reach a state of consciousness that is worth striving for. But it will not make you a better or more advanced human being, Or more special than the peep next door that annoys you every time you see him.

Originally Posted by Melahin

Nature always strive towards what is most efficient, what is called either the path of least resistance or most allowance. It is not really a question of good or bad, just about efficiency. You do things because you believe it will make you happier, and happy is always easier than any other states of beingness. Not better, just more at ease, more fun to be part of... why else do we all desire to be happy if it was not because it just simply feels better?

With Love
Eelco