Spirituality versus Religion

Originally Posted by Rawnrr

Religion is designed for the spiritual growth of a society, whereas spirituality is the path for personal spiritual experience.

Rawnrr,

Thanks for this concise explanation. It is the closest, IMO, to the truth of the distinction between the two. Religion always points to spirituality and encourages it but necessarily must focus on the communal aspect and society. In Christianity that is because of the emphasis on love. Love is non-existent without an 'other' so, therefore, communion(with others, not just God) becomes a dictate. The apostle Paul in the 14th chapter of 1 Corinthians speaks of the necessity of spirit and mind. I would suggest, for anyone, to read vs. 1-25. Without sharing the entirety of the text, I will simply share vs. 18-19:

"I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. But in the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue."

[quote=LorelyenReligion controls people with fear. If you don't do what you're told there are sanctions and/or threats about what happens when you depart this material life.
.....[/QUOTE]

Lorelyen,

Much of what you said was clearly evident in the history of the Church, especially prior to the Protestant Reformation. The Reformation, however, began to challenge the authority of the Church. Catholicism retains a 'pontiff'(derived from 'ponte' meaning bridge......a bridge between man and God) while Protestantism encouraged speaking directly to God. The effect of that carried over into my own lifetime. At a rural school I attended we would often have discussions/arguments between Catholics and Protestants. If we questioned a Catholic, invariably, they would respond: you have to ask a priest. They were not comfortable with expressing a belief other than this.

The Reformation, of course, was characterized by the advent of printing the Bible. It was no longer restricted to the hierarchy. This, of course, led to many divergent interpretations and understanding of scripture and resulted in numerous denominations. I would suggest that spirituality got a boost from the Reformation when people began to read the scriptures for themselves. It is impossible to ignore that the scriptures point directly to spirituality. Obviously, the Church(even in its Protestant form) sought to control believers in ways that were beneficial to the organization. It remains the fault of individuals to accept the authority of others(rather than God) when their path to freedom is clearly indicated in the scriptures.

[shoni7510]

Originally Posted by Baile

There are a number of esoteric philosophies that speak to the occult aspects of Jesus and Christian philosophy. Jesus was simply a human being who had learned metaphysical techniques, that many other masters before and since have learned, and that any human being can learn. So the metaphysical aspects have in fact made their way into the world, they're just less known, which is what occult (hidden) knowledge is all about anyway. The vast majority of the population, from an awakened consciousness perspective, are at any time a step of two behind the small minority who lead the way for the rest of humanity. That's the way it's always been.

Thank you for your input. It got me wondering where this teachings are and how to get them. Are they available on the internet? Where did Jesus learn the metaphysical aspects of his life if anybody knows about that?

Originally Posted by shoni7510

It is interesting indeed because today Jesus is associated with religion than spirituality. If you try to point out that Jesus was psychic and it is in the Bible where he saw someone under a tree (remote viewing) or his speech to the Samaritan woman, there is resistance to associating the word psychic with Jesus. I guess if all his teachings had made it into the modern world we wouldn't be having this discussion and Christianity as we know it would be different.

Likewise that Jesus was almost certainly gnostic and certain gospels hint at that if not spell it out (as in Thomas). They were rejected from the Bible. To make orthodox Christianity work, the church had to portray Jesus as divine, the very son of God (who is out there in the sky somewhere). You won't establish a multinational religion / business by telling your "flock" that God exists in us all and Jesus will show you how to find It. The canonical scriptures (allowed into the Bible) tend to promote this vision of divinity.

The absence of the remaining gospels naturally arouses suspicion. (It did with me!) Constantine made a concerted effort to have every trace of them destroyed (and the gnostics purged). Unfortunately he wasn't thorough enough and some were secreted away, discovered more recently. They paint a different picture of Jesus.

I have to say, some are quite difficult and finding an unbiased commentary is just as difficult. They also show some of the politicking among the disciples which are in themselves interesting.

...

Originally Posted by Molearner

Lorelyen,

Much of what you said was clearly evident in the history of the Church, especially prior to the Protestant Reformation. The Reformation, however, began to challenge the authority of the Church. Catholicism retains a 'pontiff'(derived from 'ponte' meaning bridge......a bridge between man and God) while Protestantism encouraged speaking directly to God. The effect of that carried over into my own lifetime. At a rural school I attended we would often have discussions/arguments between Catholics and Protestants. If we questioned a Catholic, invariably, they would respond: you have to ask a priest. They were not comfortable with expressing a belief other than this.

Acknowledged. I was trying to address the pitting of religion against spirituality in as straightforward a way as possible.

[Rawnrr]

Originally Posted by Molearner

Rawnrr,

Thanks for this concise explanation. It is the closest, IMO, to the truth of the distinction between the two. Religion always points to spirituality and encourages it but necessarily must focus on the communal aspect and society. In Christianity that is because of the emphasis on love. Love is non-existent without an 'other' so, therefore, communion(with others, not just God) becomes a dictate. The apostle Paul in the 14th chapter of 1 Corinthians speaks of the necessity of spirit and mind. I would suggest, for anyone, to read vs. 1-25. Without sharing the entirety of the text, I will simply share vs. 18-19:

"I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. But in the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue."

From the Christian perspective, if you want to learn about spirituality, the priests are the teachers, but if you want to talk about experiences the spiritual side of life, then you talk to the monks, who actually live the experience.
This is true for most religions as well...the priests are the teachers who give the background mythology...the metaphors to work with, and then the monks are the ones who are more concerned about the spiritual experience, and can relate that to you better than a priest.

[MIND POWER]

Religion was influenced by spirituality , it's just packaged and moulded differently! And it’s very fragmented! That is why loads of opposing religions disagree with one another, but then seem to agree on some moral values. There are alot of truth in religions, but there is also allot of deception (I have always stated this)...

I was not brought up in the church every Sunday but? Even i can see that religion is spirituality! It is very high metaphysics in Christianity for example, if you can perceive beyond the words! People must understand words & metaphors where THE science long before numbers and modern technology was invented! So when Shakespeare attempted to translate the bible he was probably editing and making stuff up! Because the knowledge was so far beyond his comprehension, he had no choice! And this very same process probably happened many times before him….

And this is an example of how religion has also been edited and manufactured to help rule and benefit certain dictatorships or people throughout history. And this was always going to be a natural tendency, when there are mutated psychopaths posing as moral people! Who stumble upon some real deep knowledge? You see because knowledge can control people, and imprison you if twisted…...

People must understand that the origin’s of all these spiritual concepts, came about when the lands of this planet where converged! (I think that’s the right word)……..that’s what Atlantis was! It was not a random island in the middle of nowhere ladies and gentlemen! The ancient Greek’s where speaking of a time, when the lands where converge (This is what my intuition tells me! it seems blatantly obvious to me) and that is why there are African statues in Mexico; this is why all of these ancient religions and cultures seem to tell the same story! Before there was some form of great fall of man, or cataclysmic change………

So yes! Spirituality was what created religion! There is no separating them…

And I believe that the New Age movement in some area’s is further twisting and editing ancient knowledge! To benefit certain people once again, this is always going to be the case because there are immoral people out there (But they will disappear soon enough). This is why it is important to sharpen and train your intuition, and be wise.

[Floatsy]

Originally Posted by MIND POWER

That is why loads of opposing religions disagree with one another

I think that Masters in nearly all contemplative traditions actually speak the same truth - which is a very beautiful resonance for anyone.

[shoni7510]

Originally Posted by Lorelyen

Likewise that Jesus was almost certainly gnostic and certain gospels hint at that if not spell it out (as in Thomas). They were rejected from the Bible. To make orthodox Christianity work, the church had to portray Jesus as divine, the very son of God (who is out there in the sky somewhere). You won't establish a multinational religion / business by telling your "flock" that God exists in us all and Jesus will show you how to find It. The canonical scriptures (allowed into the Bible) tend to promote this vision of divinity.

The absence of the remaining gospels naturally arouses suspicion. (It did with me!) Constantine made a concerted effort to have every trace of them destroyed (and the gnostics purged). Unfortunately he wasn't thorough enough and some were secreted away, discovered more recently. They paint a different picture of Jesus.

I have to say, some are quite difficult and finding an unbiased commentary is just as difficult. They also show some of the politicking among the disciples which are in themselves interesting.

...

I have heard about the Gospels of Thomas and Mary Magdalene and why they were left out of the Bible. In fact I read somewhere that there were over 70 gospels but only 4 made it into the Bible.

I think it is much nicer to have a direct relationship and experience the divine but it comes after some leg work has been done by religion it seems then one can have roots to stand on. In this case I think spirituality does not happen in a vacuum

[shoni7510]

Originally Posted by Floatsy

I think that Masters in nearly all contemplative traditions actually speak the same truth - which is a very beautiful resonance for anyone.

Jesus was also speaking what other Masters before him had talked about so at the core it is essentially the same message does has been handed down through time by different people in their own ways