Spirituality vs Buddhism

Originally Posted by LucidMoob

This issue has been bothering me for a while so I thought I would throw it out into this enlightened community to gain more insight into this.

By modern spirituality I am referring to those who generally practice mediumship, psychic development, spirit guide chatter etc.

My best mate is a medium so I've learnt a lot about that side of things, and I volunteered in my local Buddhist centre for over a year and worked with some great Buddhist monks and learnt a little about Buddhism. Currently I dont have any particular agenda, I meditate, I try to be as selfless as possible, and I try to love everyone.

One day when talking to one of the monks it suddenly hit me how similar Buddhism and modern spirituality are, but both have a slighly difference view of why we are here, but who is right? this has been bugging me for over a year now.

Buddhism believes that we will have continual rebirths forever unless we break the cycle of samsara and overcome all attachment etc. and become enlightened and never have to come back here again. We are here because of our karma and we must try to better ourselves so that we don't have another rebirth. (excuse my limited and simple understanding of buddhism).

Modern Spiritualists believe that we choose to come here to learn a lesson or a few lesson, and that we will continue to keep getting reborn until we learn the lesson/s. Once we have learnt all of our lessons we can transcend to a higher plane a school of learning. But we choose to come here to learn the lessons in this physical world.

So modern spiritualists believe that we choose to be here and that its a good thing, so long as we're making use of this experience. While Buddhist believe that we are here as a result of our karma and that were should follow the teachings of Buddha to get the hell outa this place and get somewhere better i.e. not Earth.

Buddhist don't practice psychic abilities as they see them as an attachment and a distraction from what is necessary to transcend. Psychics believe that Psychic abilities enables them to connect to spirit guides/higher self and gain an insight into the reasons for being here.

Of the psychics that I've met, some can have big ego's and certainly have many attachments in this world, therefore will they continue to have rebirths because they are being sucked into the notion that having these psychic 'powers' is cool and essential to our reason for being here?. Are Buddhists seeing past these psychic 'powers' and going straight for the finish line or are they misguided as for our reasons for being here?

Of the people I have asked about this, the psychics say that the Buddhist were meant to be Buddhists in this lifetime and are learning their specific lessons. The Buddhists say that the spiritualists are on the right path but have been distracted by the promise of psychic abilities and an heightened ego and status. I don't know if I will ever get a specific answer to this but I would love to hear your opinion on this issue. My current personal belief is that somewhere in the middle of these two is the real reason for us being here, but thats the easy way out aint it hehe.

Thanks

That is a lot to respond to...First of all, all mediums are psychic, but not all psychics are mediums...Second, most mediums are not Spiritulists, but many spiritulists are mediums..Yes we are here to learn and to experience and some of that is related to karma....but karma is a much bigger deal in Buddhism....Certain sects chant in order to "lighten karmic retribution".......Buddhists do not communicate with spirit, which is what spiritualism is all about.....so actually, it is whatever works for you, for as long as it does work for you....but just remember that just because a person is a medium does not mean that they are all that much into spiritual issues--some are, some are not... Some high profile medium,IMO, have lost their gifts due to greed and grabs for fame....

[quote=livingkarma]NOTHING, zero, nada, zilch cures grief except to go through the natural process ...
Faith brings one to a better understanding & helps to soothe it ...
Grief is a natural; we hard wired with it ...
Besides, who would want to miss out on the greatest learning experience life & death have to offer, it's a major transition, an enlightenment, a chance to grow, to not fear death, to shed all fears, to see life in a whole new way ...
Many people run from it, deny it, freeze up, etc ...
Pain promotes growth; we did not come into this world w/out it ...
This is how we are tested & this is how true meaning of faiths & beliefs resonate in ways you can never imagine ...
Those have truly experienced grief by going through the entire process find peace, happiness, gratitude, contentment or at least I have ...
I never thought it could be this way ...
My husband is safe & is surrounded by love ...
And through his death, I began a new one ...
Remember the word *cathexis*, as one ...

Never ask how to deal with grief. Grief is there to teach you how ... by Takuin in The Grief oa Buddhist ...




I would gladly have foregone the lessons and kept my loved ones with me....I read your other post and you described my ordeal to a tee, but yes that was the beginning of my spiritual journey as well....you really don't deal with grief---grief deals with you...

Originally Posted by LucidMoob

My current personal belief is that somewhere in the middle of these two is the real reason for us being here, but thats the easy way out aint it hehe.

Thanks

Yep, that's the easy way but Spirituality and everything in it can be pretty easy if you want to choose that perspective. Why can't it be that easy? It would make too much common sense if it was so it has to be more difficult, right? Ummm no.

Tell you what, why don't we have a heated discussion on driving a red sports car vs driving a green SUV? We could throw in a few swear words, find what we choose to believe as evidence and take pot-shots at each other from behind a sand-bagged entrenchment. Good plan? If that doesn't make sense to you then you know how much sense arguing over beliefs makes to me.

Religion/beliefs systems are the mask, and if you look behind the mask you'll find one thing in common - people trying to understand the Universe they are a part of. Even those that aren't 'Spiritual' are a part of that Universe, the same Universe as everyone else. They are walking their Path the same as the Buddhist, the Spiritualist, the Christian....... You can take the religion out of the human but you can't take the human out of religion. It doesn't matter what belief system you have it's still subject to human nature, and as much as people tell you otherwise that includes Spirituality.

Now, about that red sports car :-)

[LucidMoob]

Wow thanks everyone some great responses here, thank you very much for your input..Cutting Through Spiritual Materialism by Chogyam Trungpa sounds right up my street Animus27 thanks for the suggestion!

I am sorry to hear of your loss livingkarma, my heart goes out to you. I think your example highlights the differences that I understand between the two though. My best friend the medium would say that one of your lessons this lifetime was about overcoming grief, whereas my Buddhist monk friend who hasn't had perhaps as much grieving to do in this lifetime would meditate on the grieving process until he fully understood it and didn't have any attachment to it, therefore wouldn't have to take another rebirth to learn that particular lesson. This lifetime for you was about grief, the next ten lifetimes may be about overcoming jealousy, the next six lifetimes about overcoming anger etc etc...that's the modern spiritualists way of seeing life here, as written about by the likes of Michael Newton in The journey of souls. But a Buddhist monk will meditate on all these emotions in this lifetime to try to lose attachment to all. who's right? is there a right or wrong?

(sorry for the loose and sometimes incorrect labels for groups juanita, was just giving a general overview of that particular group of people and the labels associated with them i.e. psychic, medium etc.).

Tbh Greenslade I personally don't care if its a red sports car or a green SUV, so long as it works, is a comfortable drive and keeps moving forward I'm happy. Sometimes it moves slowly, sometimes faster, sometimes we have to park and get out, but as long as we get to our destination all is fine! hehe... :-)

I think for the moment I'll keep living my simple life and not get hung up on labels and rigid boxes, I do like the idea of becoming a Buddhist or going to a spiritual development circle but I wouldn't like to have a label and still don't know which one may been the truer path (I know, both are true and relevant..)...as running said 'For me I found a simple job helpful. Meditation and some simple exercises to help. And most importantly getting to know myself. What I mean is thru time spent by myself I have become content with more of myself. Having done that I feel at peace and happy. To me happiness is the thing I wanted. And I found when I have that inside how can I suffer much anymore. I have me. What more can I ask for.' (my guitar hehe...)

Thanks for all your input guys would still love to hear other peoples thoughts and perspectives!

Peace to your all

[LucidMoob]

...Also another point about our brain...modern science has little clue as to the full capabilities of our brain, I also think that most intelligent and enlightened people in the spiritual community don't know either. But could it be that people who believe they are communicating with spirits and spirit guides are been a little duped by their brain and its ability to tap into the matrix.

For example...If I went to a spiritual development circle (I've never been to one but may like to start someday), I already know, from reading books and chatting to other psychics, that we all have a spirit guide/s, and my best mate the medium has already told me that my closest one is a female. Could it be then that my concious and/or subconscious mind creates this character which other psychics can then tap into and, for example, know the name I've potentially given her without me even telling them?
I can think of mount Everest and randomly attach the numbers '5468 2676' to it. A remote viewer can then 'meditate' on these numbers and should end up looking at Everest. The remote viewer has tapped into the 'matrix' and received information I put there, i.e. that the numbers 5468 2676 represent Everest. Could it be that I create my spirit guides or another psychic creates mine and we end up tapping into the same information. I believe its a spirit guide telling me to be a more relaxed person for example, when in actual fact its my higher self telling me this, which in turn is actually the universal conciousness we all come from. In reality what mediums could be doing is pulling information from the matrix, this could be messages from ones that have passed etc. and thinking that it is the actual person when in fact its just their information in the aether, stemmed from source, the one conciousness we all come from?

Bit of a ramble I know, really sorry if I offend any psychics/mediums with this thought, but it is just that, a speculation...My spirit guide may well be standing right besides me now slapping me on that head saying 'Im right here!' lol. I am no expert on spiritual history or anything but is there any mention of spirit guides etc before modern psychics/mediums came along? I know obviously there are many gods etc. Paramahansa Yogananda made no mention of spirit guides in his autobiography and he was enlightened. His swami said that Paramahansa Yogananda would bring yoga to the western world before he died, and he did, was this information from spirit guides or information attained from the aether/matrix/universal conciousness?

I guess ultimately it doesn't matter if the information and messages mediums receive comes from aether/matrix/universal conciousness or spirit guides, perhaps enlightened/psychic people receive messages from the aether but don't realise that they are coming from spirit guides? again I would again like to hear peoples views on this if they care to share?!

Thanks again

Originally Posted by LucidMoob

Tbh Greenslade I personally don't care if its a red sports car or a green SUV, so long as it works, is a comfortable drive and keeps moving forward I'm happy. Sometimes it moves slowly, sometimes faster, sometimes we have to park and get out, but as long as we get to our destination all is fine! hehe... :-)

Just when I need that shotgun the most

It was the Sufis that said it best. I can't remember what the exact quote is but it's something like it doesn't matter what you believe as long as you believe, all belief goes to God. Being honest I'm not sure why this kind of debate would even come up, it looks to me like people are discussing what colour of wrapping paper they should choose. Spirituality should be about encompassing all religions and belief systems and not putting one against the other, but then that can lead to debate so it's bot always a bad thing. The problems come when we talk about right and wrong instead of what works or not for individuals. If people don't fight over cars, why do they do it over beliefs?

True knowledge of believing is believing.

I've never cared for boxes and labels and I never put myself into one. I've done mediumship development and in discussions within circles sometimes talked about the Tao Te Ching or whatever else I've come across - including aliens. People have the choice, take me or leave me alone.

[LucidMoob]

I subscribe to your view greenslade that True knowledge of believing is believing. I happy so long as people are living their life based on their own morals and experiences, and bring no intended harm to others. I'm a vegan and came to that choice based on my own understandings and morals, but part of me doesn't really mind if everyone else on the planet eats animals so long as they can reasonably justify their reasons, it's their choice, we are all part of the universal consciousness having a human experience.

But reason I brought up this topic is because my medium friend is very accepting of Buddhism and does study it from time to time, but he is 100% sure that his beliefs are the correct ones. My Buddhist monk friend totally understands why my medium friend is a medium and has the beliefs that he has, but he also is 100% that Buddhism holds the correct understanding of our existence. I posted this topic to gain other peoples opinions into these 'belief boxes' and to see what their take on the conflicting beliefs would be. I've been grateful for everyone's response and the general consensus so far has been your similar to your view Greenslade, that it ain't really that important which belief you follow so long as you have one. I guess I was expecting more hardcore Buddhist and hardcore mediums to explain to me more clearly their understanding of their beliefs, not to cause conflict between the two but to enlighten us more and clarify the reasons for the differences perhaps...

I think it makes sense what Seth (Jane Roberts) said, namely that we are here to test symbols, concepts and ideas which we project outward into reality. There would be no need for physical human existence if they could be tested mentally.

: "Now what about THIS idea? What can we do with it? What will happen if we toss it out into reality, physically? How far can we go with ANY of the great social, scientific, religious ideas that are so peculiarly the offshoots of man's mind?"

My idea about life is that it is to be lived as closely to what each individual holds All That Is to be.
I do not think our purpose is to hurry back to and merge with All That Is.
Neither do I think that an awakened person is ready permanently to merge with All That Is although awakening as a step towards perfection should be a goal.
There is still an incredibly lot to experience including experiences that are still probabilities in, say, the mind of All That Is.

People with psychic abilities were not given those abilities. They earned them.