Don't do that

[sky]

Originally Posted by Unseeking Seeker

More or less a Buddhist thread here but that’s alright, all paths are our friends.
All good ~ whatever works. One size does not fit all, however.

Obviously the Sattipathana Sutta is part of the Buddhist Canon but a well known Hindu Vipassana Teacher used it in His Teachings, I'm not sure if any other Teachers outside of Buddhism have put it to good use. Like you say, whatever works and one size doesn't fit all

[Unseeking Seeker]

@ sky ~ what I’ve seen as of my experience is that all ‘paths’ or ‘no-path’ converge. It’s just that the mind needs to be steered, quietened and thus whatever resonates, works. For example, the lightning and thunder of kundalini awakening resulting in bliss in permanence too finally quietens down into time stretched spacial peace.

It’s the application of what we imbibe as an understanding in real life, in thought, word and deed, moment to moment, that is relevant. Otherwise, it’s just time out for yoga or contemplation or whatever. Still, no harm; something is better than nothing.

Earth life will test, again and again, relentlessly. We must be mindfully aware to recognise what’s offered, calibrating and gentling our responses.

There I go rambling on again!

[Gem]

Sorry if I'm more specific than people prefer, but I'm already exercising restraint whereas if let loose I'd be overly detailed. I'm only up to talking about body awareness in a precursory way so far, and haven't even addressed the section on sensations yet, let alone the mind and mental contents. I'm not about to jump the gun and rush headlong, so I'm covering things from beginning to end without skipping the middle.

On my second go 'round I'll talk about the same things again, but on a more nuanced level. I already have a method and a plan, and I know what I have set out to do.

Although I personally find allusions to amazing things mere distractions, They are brought up, so I'll just say, everything that spiritualists care to mention are a part of the purification process. It's just that this doesn't involve the craving of, "what about me. I want that experience, why isn't this working for me, how come I don't get that," and so forth. That is a very typical tendency for just about everyone, but this is about the actuality of experience 'as it is'. It's 'already happening', and the only question is, are you aware of 'this' or not?

It is hard to see the relevance of that because it's subtle, and the cruder mind is just a little too disturbed to apprehend the subtle nuances of 'this' just the way it is.

Next is the section is on sensation, and in practice, ardent awareness, pure awareness and only awareness of the sensations as they are, as they arise in the body and change and pass away in your conscious experience, without craving, aversion nor expectation, is realty 'just as it is', in the way it is being experienced by you.

Hencewhy, before I continue with the section on the sensations, I have to revisit earlier parts of the teaching which define what the meditation is. If you understand what it is, you automatically know how to do it.

That said, the clear approach from the very beginning, and especially going forward, is captured in the following lines:

"A monk dwells ardent with awareness and constant thorough understanding of impermanence observing... having removed craving and aversion toward the world," and;

"Thus he dwells observing the phenomena arising in the body, thus he dwells observing phenomena passing away in the body. He observes phenomena arising and passing away in the body and his awareness is established: this is body. He develops his awareness to such an extent that there is mere understanding and mere awareness. In this way he dwells detached, without clinging to anything in the world."

[Gem]

The next section on sensations is the core of meditation because it is the central nerve of physical experience, and therefore, the nexus of mind/body connection.

From the beginning of the teaching, which was the section on Respiration, there was, already, the allusion to sensations:

"...Feeling the whole body, I shall breath in. Feeling the whole body I shall breath out. Thus he trains himself. With bodily activity calmed I shall breath in. With bodily activity calmed I shall breathe out. Thus he trains himself."

The sections following respiration served, initially, to elaborate on postural awareness and the impermanent nature of things, and then, to reflect on philosophical aspects of repulsiveness, material elements and dead bodies. The latter three discuss ways in which to to contemplate the body, rather than directly experience it in momentary immediacy. The section on sensations now follows on from breath awareness, and returns us to immediate conscious experience.

Sensations

"A monk, while experiencing a pleasant sensation understands properly, "I am experiencing a pleasant sensation"; while experiencing an unpleasant sensation, he understands properly, "I am experiencing an unpleasant sensation"; while experiencing a neutral sensation, he understands that he is experiencing neither a pleasant nor an unpleasant sensation.

The next stanza reflects how the sensation relates or interacts with the mental contents:

"While experiencing a pleasant, unpleasant or neutral sensation with attachment, he understands, "I am experiencing this sensation with attachment". While experiencing a pleasant, unpleasant or neutral sensation without attachment, he understands properly. it is true. "I am experiencing this sensation without attachment." (I have abridged this because the sutta itself is repetitive and long winded)

The sutta then reaffirms:

"Thus he dwells observing phenomena arising in sensation, and he observes phenomena passing away in sensations. Thus he dwells phenomena arising and passing away in sensations. Now his awareness is established: "This is sensation". He develops his awareness to such as extent that there is mere understanding along with mere awareness. In this way he dwells detached, without clinging to anything in the world."

I'm probably going to do another post to unpack this section because it does contradict itself (I hope you picked up on that), and that contradiction should probably be clarified. Cheers.

[FallingLeaves]

Originally Posted by Maisy

Observing can be a doing as well. Not doing can be a doing. It's a tricky thing!

not doing without doing not doing is a basic concept yet seems beyond many...
even this thread is trying to not do in terms of replacing what you don't do with something else most of the time... it seems like the meaning of simply 'stopping' and not doing anything at all is long lost to us...

a slightly more advanced version of this concept is mentioned in the tao te ching 'acting without acting' or 'doing without doing'...

[utopiandreamchild]

I'm not Buddhist but I do practice mindfulness and meditation just not the Buddhist way.

As far as I know there are 3 different energies to focus on when meditating, " neutral, positive and negative ", I sit in silence of neutrality, embrace the positive/love and ignore the negative/hate.

utopiandreamchild

[Gem]

The contradiction in the section on sensation is, the first section says "he understands properly that he observes the sensation with attachment". However, the section concludes with "In this way he dwells detached without clinging to anything in the world". The line that bridges these two contradictory statements and indicates the progression from from attachment to detachment is this: "He develops his awareness to such an extent that there is mere understanding along with mere awareness...".

This implies that a person progresses over time from being attached and agitated with desire and aversion, to having pure awareness or mere awareness that is free of craving and aversion, and without clinging to anything in the world. This progression is true in my experience and that of most fairly well established meditators.

The other remarkable phrase in the section on sensations reads: "...thus he dwells observing the phenomena of arising and passing away in sensation". It means within what we may feel as solid and dense sensations there are lighter, more subtle dynamics. This is further affirmed by, "Thus he dwells feeling sensation within sensation...", and indeed, closer observation will reveal that there are smaller feelings arising and passing away within the finer nuances of the larger mass. The meditator utilises ardent awareness to become perceptive of these subtler levels of the body, or levels of the subtle body, thereby dissolving denser, longer-lasting solidity into more refined and subtle changing dynamics.

[Gem]

In this method there is ardency, determination, persistence, right effort and so forth - it is work - but there is no doing. From the beginning, with awareness of respiration, there is observation along with understanding, but there is no activity.

'This is what it's like' as the air is coming in and 'this is how it is' as the air goes out. It's 'mere awareness' - awareness only - but not a passive gaze. It's also 'ardent awareness'; very perceptive awareness, a close examination, highly alert to the subtle nuances of the real-living experience.

UDC is on the money - neutrality as defined by not being adverse toward the unpleasant, not craving and clinging to the pleasant. "Having removed craving and aversion toward the world". The absence of these reactive tendencies is what we call 'neutrality', or 'equanimity'. The section on equanimity is much later on in this teaching, so I'm not going to launch into that here and now, but with my next, more nuanced iteration, it will be the essence of the practice.

In terms of energy, I don't know what that is, but this teaching addresses how to deal with positive, negative, impure and wholesome states in the section about The Truth of the Path... I'll be getting to that later on.

[sky]

Originally Posted by utopiandreamchild

I'm not Buddhist but I do practice mindfulness and meditation just not the Buddhist way.

As far as I know there are 3 different energies to focus on when meditating, " neutral, positive and negative ", I sit in silence of neutrality, embrace the positive/love and ignore the negative/hate.

That sounds good and if it helps you then it's perfect

[Gem]

We are at the section on observation of mind.

As my last post mentioned, the psychology enters the discourse in the section on observing sensation because the mentalities such as craving, aversion, resistance and clinging occur in reaction to feelings.

Hencewhy, in the 'Observation of Sensation' section the sutta comments on knowing, or understanding properly, if you experience the sensation with attachment or without attachment. In short, as UDC suggests, you know if you are neutral toward the passing phenomena or if are you reacting to it. Ideally, you'd be 'merely aware' of feelings as they arises and as they passed away, however, if it's not ideal and you are attached in some way, then you 'understand properly' this is attachment, and also realise how I have been doing this in my day to day life.

Indeed the mentalities have always been a subtext, but the section on Observing the Mind makes it explicit, because in the reality of practice, we find that the mind generates all sorts of hinderences and distractions to progression, contentment and pure awareness.

Observation of Mind

A monk understands properly mind with craving as a mind with craving, he understands properly a mind free from craving as a mind free from craving, he understands properly a mind with aversion as a mind with aversion, he understands properly a mind free of aversion as a mind free of aversion. He understands a mind with delusion as a mind with delusion and a mind free of delusion as mind free of delusion. He understands a collected mind and a scattered mind. He understands an expanded mind and he understands an unexpanded mind. He understands a mind which is surpassable, and he understands a mind which is insurpassable. He understands properly a concentrated mind, and an unconcentrated mind. He properly understands the freed mind as a freed mind, and an unfreed mind as unfreed. (abridged quote)

The verse emphasises 'understanding properly' the current nature of the mind, which leads to the closing stanza:

Thus he dwells observing the phenemona of arising in the mind. Thus he dwells observing the phenomena of passing away in the mind. Thus he dwells observing the phenomena of arising and passing away in the mind. Now his awareness is established "This is mind". He develops his awareness to the extent that there is mere understanding along with mere awareness. In this way he dwells detached, without clinging to anything in the world.

People usually think this mind observation is a different meditation to the observation of sensations, but the teaching isn't linear; it's holistic. It is not 'do the sensation first and do the mind next'. The meditation is 'to see it as it is'- the real lived experience rather than the imaginings of mind. Understanding the interplay, the underlying nature, of mind and matter. "Understanding properly' the impermanence of everything.

At times the mind will be still and there will be no observable mental activity, so you know, this is quiet mind, free from craving and aversion. Other times when the lived experience becomes somewhat intense, the reactivity will start. A feeling in there will elicit the craving, as one craves for special things. Otherwise, an itch or some pain will arise, and 'I don't like, why me, when will this pass?' and irritation, agitation, frustration, impatience as the adverse emotions hate that feeling. Then you understand respectively, this is craving, this is aversions, and this the how I tend to generate acrimonious negativity in day to day life. On the other hand, at times the mind is quiet and still, 'This is peaceful, and this is how I generate harmony and serenity in my day to day life'.

Note how there is nothing to fix. There is just the mere awareness with the mere understanding, 'This is how it is'. This is the insight and the understanding. The witness knows what is true, and as they say, the truth will set you free.

So, you accept the state of mind/body 'as it is' because what has arisen will pass away. Change is inevitable, and "thus he observes the phenomena of arising and passing away..."

By the end of that I didn't even know what I was saying, so I'm stopping here and will return to elaborate on the above mentioned hinderances.