I have absolutely had it with the so-called "experts."

Originally Posted by chartreuse

First of all, none of them seem to actually be with their connections. This is worrisome. If even these people who have devoted years to spiritual growth and understanding these connections, who have in fact based their livelihood around advising others about these connections, aren't "evolved" enough to "handle" being in a romantic relationship with their connection, the rest of us probably don't stand a frickin' chance. That's one way to look at it. Another would be to question why people who haven't even managed to achieve this themselves should be considered qualified to give advice.

I think I'm an exception then XD. I'm actually with my connection...and i intend to keep it.
I think everyone is entitled to give advice, regardless of their achievements or not. After all it is a public forum, people ask questions and other people give their 2 cent. Otherwise they would only use PM right?
If you don't like someone's opinions....just dont take it into consideration. You cant change how people react, you can change how you react to the events though.
Not everyone will agree and be all fluff and butterflies. I see no point in 'yes' men on the forum.
Going back to your connection...in the end it is romantic love isn't it?. And it will materialize or not. It's just like any other relationship in that matter.
I don't believe in TF, but i believe in a special connection you have with some people. I think it's normal to feel like this for some people, or living would be very lonely.

[NightSpirit]

Originally Posted by chartreuse

First off, I should warn you all that I'm partially posting this as a way to think it through, so I hope you'll forgive me if it's a little bit lengthy, rambling or both.

Anyway, as some of you may recall, I posted awhile ago in one thread or another that I had had a period several weeks ago where I really was feeling amazingly good about my life in general. I was really at peace with the idea that we may not be together, really excited about my life, really enjoying my life day to day, and even able to see how I could maybe possibly find pleasure in being with someone else, if that's what the universe brought to me. In other words, I was totally good with my life in the present and totally excited about the future, even if it didn't include my connection; although I did have a sense that it would include him, I wasn't attached to that outcome. I was living my life for me. (Full disclosure - this state lasted maybe 2 1/2 to 3 weeks, and I've been struggling again lately - but two steps forward and one step back IS mostly how we make progress, isn't it?)

So even though I kind of slipped back, I still held on to this as an example of the fact that there is hope here, that I'm not doomed to suffer forever, and that the state of mind that I keep being told by the "experts" is exactly what I'm "supposed" to be working to achieve is a) actually possible for me to achieve and b) actually feels really good, especially in that it is something that comes from within me, and doesn't rely on anyone else.

However, in my "slipping back," I was miserable enough that I scheduled a consult with someone I'd worked with before - one of the SM/TF "guru/expert types" whom heretofore had seemed to be fairly trustworthy. So we talk for awhile, and I relate what I just related here about the "good" period I'd had, and guess what their reply was? Not that I was on the right the track, not that I did a good job working with my thoughts and focusing my energy on me, not any acknowledgment whatsoever that I'd achieved something that had eluded me for months. But rather...

That they just "feel" I didn't really do it for me, that it was more about my connection. In other words, they just basically told me that I didn't know myself, that I wasn't reading myself correctly, and that even though I was happy, it wasn't the "right" kind of happiness based on the "right" things.

So this touched off in me a lot of thinking about all of the advice I've been given, both directly and in the form of various essays, blogs, etc. on the TF/SM issue. I'm starting to really question if any of these people have a clue.

First of all, none of them seem to actually be with their connections. This is worrisome. If even these people who have devoted years to spiritual growth and understanding these connections, who have in fact based their livelihood around advising others about these connections, aren't "evolved" enough to "handle" being in a romantic relationship with their connection, the rest of us probably don't stand a frickin' chance. That's one way to look at it. Another would be to question why people who haven't even managed to achieve this themselves should be considered qualified to give advice.

Second, some of what is being presented to me as being the "right" way to be doesn't sound evolved, it just sounds selfish and narcissistic, if not downright sociopathic. For instance, in one of my consults I said that it would break my heart if he and I didn't have a chance to ever be together (but also that I knew I'd ultimately be okay). The response of the expert was to question why I should care, that it was just "his loss." Why should I care? Gee, I don't know...I guess because part of the human experience is loving someone and wanting to be loved in return, and if you actually do love them, you're probably going to be hurt and disappointed if you find out it's not mutual. That's NORMAL. Just shrugging it off like they never mattered to you...not so much.

During the same session, I said that I was to some extent likely to make different decisions until I got some answer to whether or not he even had feelings for me, with the example I used being getting a job offer elsewhere in the country. I said that honestly I wouldn't choose to move away without at least having a chance to address this with him; in other words, that I cared about the possibility of US enough to prioritize it over some stupid job. I was told that the fact I would make this choice was "sad." Hmmmm....let's see. I'm told to live my life for me, do the things that make me happy, and know that I am good enough right now. And yet, if what makes me happy is taking a chance on love, if what I am "right now" is someone who would rather wait a little while longer and see what happens instead of jetting off into the sunset, suddenly being true to myself isn't good enough at all.

I think that's the biggest thing that gets to me about the "party line" espoused by these people. They go on and on and on about self-esteem, about knowing your own value, about not allowing your self-worth to be determined by others, but then when you actually declare yourself, when you say, "this is who I am and I'm confident and smart and strong and being all of those things this is what I choose because this is what I truly believe is the right path for me," they tell you that...oops, you're not really good enough; your judgment is fundamentally flawed (apparently because it doesn't agree with theirs, which as we already established should be taken with a grain of salt if they still don't have that which they claim to be qualified to tell us how to get).

Anyway, if any of you actually managed to plow through this lengthy diatribe, thanks, and let me know what you think!

I'm didnt even read all of this because one thing came to mind out of this long post....question: "What does chartruese want?"

[Internal Queries]

frankly, i don't see how anyOne can be an "expert" on spirituality and psy phenom since manifestations of such is different for each individual so the criteria for "expertise" would necessarily be pretty damn vague.

no one can be an expert on anything here all we can do is relate from our own expereince to try and help those asking thru what they are seeking ecah experience is unique but those can be or not be helpful to an individual we can only hope we can help each other and bring them happiness...Best I can say is we are all here to help one another.
Oh and chartreuse I am with my twin and she has been passed on by 22 years

I want to thank you all for your responses.

After sleeping on it and replaying in my head a lot of the consult I was referring to (that was the trigger for this post but more in a "last-straw" kind of way; this has been simmering in me for awhile), the thought I had when I woke up was that I think this person was probably having a bad day. There's a number of reasons I say this that I won't go into, and it certainly doesn't excuse the tone of some of what they said, but there you have it.

And I do think that ultimately the experience was helpful in that it led me to thinking about all this more deeply than I have before.

@nightspirit - what do I want? Excellent question. Here's the answer:

I want a chance to be with this person, to find out what we could ultimately be to each other.

I want this chance before I start drawing Social Security. Well before.

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by chartreuse

I want to thank you all for your responses.

After sleeping on it and replaying in my head a lot of the consult I was referring to (that was the trigger for this post but more in a "last-straw" kind of way; this has been simmering in me for awhile), the thought I had when I woke up was that I think this person was probably having a bad day. There's a number of reasons I say this that I won't go into, and it certainly doesn't excuse the tone of some of what they said, but there you have it.

And I do think that ultimately the experience was helpful in that it led me to thinking about all this more deeply than I have before.

@nightspirit - what do I want? Excellent question. Here's the answer:

I want a chance to be with this person, to find out what we could ultimately be to each other.

I want this chance before I start drawing Social Security. Well before.

Sounds reasonable!!! Set your intention and communicate your heart's desire.
Here's hoping the universe, the field, and your destinies come together in this lifetime, and sooner rather than later, much sooner...from my lips to God's ear xxxxxooooxxxxx

I'm putting this out there for you and for all ppl in this situation...can't hurt, & hopefully may help.

love & light,
7L

Originally Posted by Internal Queries

frankly, i don't see how anyOne can be an "expert" on spirituality and psy phenom since manifestations of such is different for each individual so the criteria for "expertise" would necessarily be pretty damn vague.

Damn good point. How can anyone claim to be an expert of something that is based on personal opinion and discernment?

[NightSpirit]

Originally Posted by chartreuse

I want to thank you all for your responses.

After sleeping on it and replaying in my head a lot of the consult I was referring to (that was the trigger for this post but more in a "last-straw" kind of way; this has been simmering in me for awhile), the thought I had when I woke up was that I think this person was probably having a bad day. There's a number of reasons I say this that I won't go into, and it certainly doesn't excuse the tone of some of what they said, but there you have it.

And I do think that ultimately the experience was helpful in that it led me to thinking about all this more deeply than I have before.

@nightspirit - what do I want? Excellent question. Here's the answer:

I want a chance to be with this person, to find out what we could ultimately be to each other.

I want this chance before I start drawing Social Security. Well before.

chartreuse....good answer! Then go for it! dream it...live it...breathe it....you just never know

@7luminaries and NightSpirit in particular, but to all of you on this subforum in general who have been so supportive, I just want to say a HUGE thank you!!!!

Whatever it was in the universe, in me, in him that has been holding this up appears to be at least partially of the way, I think. I think, I hope. I really hope.

Monday morning I woke up thinking (and more important feeling) that I was going to get my answer soon. Later that day he contacted the office - long story short he's coming in in just under 3 weeks, and will be finishing up what he's doing shortly thereafter. He will say something or won't, if he doesn't I'm going to, because I can't leave it unsaid and if someone felt this way about me I would want to know, even if I didn't feel the same connection or even return their feelings in any way.

By that time I won't have seen him in over 7 months. I'm excited and nervous, but what I'm intrigued by is how just happy and joyful I feel. There were a few little details of our interaction when he set the appointment that give me encouragement, but more than anything I just FEEL really deeply that it's all going to be good. No, scratch that, like it's all going to be GREAT.

I realize this may not turn out the way I want, I've always known that, and I do think I'm going to be okay if the resolution to this isn't what I'm hoping for. I've been focusing on my self-esteem a lot and am in a far better place than I used to be. I do owe one particular expert a debt of gratitude in that respect, I have to admit.

Anyway, thanks again for everything. I'm going to be off of here (absent a last minute freak-out) until I have my answer because I really need to keep the focus on me over the next few weeks and not the connection or the outcome of all this. But I will let you know what happens.

Gotta say, if there was a happy dance icon, I'd be using it right now...

Love and light to all of you!

[NightSpirit]

[quote=chartreuse

[COLOR=blue]There were a few little details of our interaction when he set the appointment that give me encouragement, but more than anything I just FEEL really deeply that it's all going to be good. No, scratch that, like it's all going to be GREAT.[/color]

I realize this may not turn out the way I want, I've always known that, and I do think I'm going to be okay if the resolution to this isn't what I'm hoping for.


Eek! Don't do that.....cancel out a positive with a negative..LOL

Good Luck