Disillusionment and Christianity

Dear people,

For a long time I've struggled with the idea of Christianity. I don't want to start a bashing, but I am posting this here so I guess I'll get what I get. I want to say beforehand that my tone in this piece is not one of hostility but of searching, questioning, and, philosophy, and theory.

I spent my childhood under the ideas of Catholicism. My grandmother was very much into her religion but she had many gifts of the spirit (prophecy, saw spirits, spoke in tongues, casting out spirits, etc). Just before her death, these gifts increased. Sometimes, while she was resting, she would be called out in the spirit and began to "travel". The people around her were also affected by her energy as my mom began to have prophetic dreams that served as a protection to my grandma until her death. When she died, she visited me in a dream and I was also called out to a higher plane (which as a child I said was heaven though it looked nothing like what I was taught in religion. It was beautiful nonetheless) I was introduced to her brother (who died when she was 4) and we played games and she told me that she was alright, happy, everything will be okay. I was the only one who didn't cry at her funeral. She was not truly dead to me.

Anyways, for as long as I can remember, I've felt protection. I believe we all have angels that look out for us. I have seen mine, felt mine, and have had my love reinforced through these messengers. To this day, I am constantly reminded that I am under the care (and not the judgment) of God. But I have become somewhat disillusioned by what is taught on the pulpit.

Despite my love for God(he first loved us) and my deep appreciation and support for Jesus, every time I go to church or read the Bible I get a different interpretation of what is being taught. I don't believe the Bible is a lesson in making money or having the perfect life from a materialistic standpoint. While it is possible to have these things, in all things I think we need to put God first and love him. I feel that while church can be uplifting, there are times when I feel it leaves people feeling powerless, unaware of their own godly nature. I have been condemned on many occasions by Christians who say I will go to "hell" if I don't believe that the Bible is the direct word of God nor accept Jesus as my Lord and savior.

I have met many people who are loving, God-fearing (not in the way many interpret it) individuals, who have treated everyone with love and respect who were not raised in a Christian household. Why ought they go to "hell" (which I also don't really believe in) while others who say they believe in Jesus but who abuse this earth, its people, animals, and other living things go to "heaven"? Just because they say, "I am a Christian."

That is another idea that I do not understand. Heaven and Hell. For I believe it can be many things. Hell (where the fire isn't quenched and the worm doesn't die) can be a state where people's needs are never met, where they are never satisfied, where their constant longing for material possessions leaves them in eternal suffering. Heaven can be a state of total union with God and the realization that God is providing for all our needs because he already knows what we need. Maybe hell is something many experience everyday when they hop in their cars and go to a job they hate, spend their life worrying about financial gain, go about condemning others and judging others (so that the person now believes that they are sinful and evil for being who they are) and living in so much fear that we don't help our neighbors believing that we won't have any for ourselves if we do...

As I go further into my desire to understand Christianity and where all the fear comes from, I have been faced with other obstacles. My own curiosity and the fear that surrounds it. I have been condemned on numerous occasions because I said there were parts of the Bible that I don't fully agree with. I feel a slight aversion to some of the words by Paul. But Paul is not here so I cannot have this discussion with him. What has gotten me is that Christianity has made things so narrow that even the people they now accept were rejected because of things they did not understand. How can we help people if all we do is go around condemning them and throwing biblical passages in their face telling them they are evil and we ourselves don't fully understand what we are reading? I believe this is one way of how people become possessed. The fear, the constant condemnation that an individual is evil because we do not understand them can open a door to things that are not in the best interest of the individual. Is it not better to exude a nature of love and kindness, honesty, and patience? So that people can then look on and say, "How does this person do what they do?"

I realize that no one is perfect. I'm not perfect. And we all do things that might not have been in anyone's best interest. I respect Christians and their beliefs. But what I have trouble with is the idea of going around condemning people because of their uncertainty or because of their inability to understand what they're reading or because of ignorance. Christians have told me on numerous occasion that this is not what they do. But I have seen them on the pulpit and when the differing of ideas come in and they immediately go, "That is a demon that is leading these people astray!" Why? Why all the guilt, pain, and condemnation? What is its use?

Anyways, I'm sorry if this comes off harsh. I consider my a Christian (because of my deep love and feelings of closeness to The Christ) and a mystic but I am very disillusioned with Christianity. I sometimes feel as though it is leading people astray and leaving them hostile and powerless.

Much love,
Dyna

Hi Dyna,
I too am a Christian, but of another cloth I guess... There are some things in the Bible that I also have problems with, and have got into some serious debates with family and church members. I recently have stopped going to church again because I believe I got what I needed while I was there. However; now I am being told the the Devil is keeping me from going. Which I find a bit funny to tell you the truth.

I believe in the trinity with all my heart and soul. I believe that Jesus died on the cross for our sins and was resurrected 3 days later. I know that I have the Holy Spirit shining brightly from within, and you know what I have come to the conclusion that that is enough for me. No one can take that from me, and that is all I need.

Sometimes we need to pray, meditate, and ask God for answers. He will provide us with our needs. He tells us to ask, seek, and knock. I know I must be one heck of an annoying 'child' cause I ask (a lot) I seek for more and I knock knock knock all the time lol...

Peace

Hey Dilchannan,

I don't think God thinks you're annoying for asking all the time. Personally I think it's good to seek and to ask. It shows curiosity, will, and the desire for knowledge and to get closer to God (or whatever anyone choose to call it. The heart is where it counts). In my heart, I feel that anyone who truly seeks this will find it. God isn't a disappointment.

Originally Posted by Dynamist

Dear people,

Despite my love for God(he first loved us) and my deep appreciation and support for Jesus, every time I go to church or read the Bible I get a different interpretation of what is being taught. I don't believe the Bible is a lesson in making money or having the perfect life from a materialistic standpoint. While it is possible to have these things, in all things I think we need to put God first and love him. I feel that while church can be uplifting, there are times when I feel it leaves people feeling powerless, unaware of their own godly nature. I have been condemned on many occasions by Christians who say I will go to "hell" if I don't believe that the Bible is the direct word of God nor accept Jesus as my Lord and savior.

Much love,
Dyna

Most people appeal to “interpretation” because they don’t like another alternative. After having read the Bible you come up with an interpretation until hearing the commentary of a Godly person, and you are then convinced that you are wrong. And so we later run into another Godly person who gives the same interpretation we once had. Take for example the speaking in tongues, one language all can understand. How many people have you heard that sound like babbling idiots attempting to do so? Could you understand them? Click Click changes the television station.

Maybe at some point the Holy Spirit is convicting your Christian conscious? That guilt and that wrongdoing that is brought to light, is that not the workings of the Holy Spirit? I commend you on your understanding and faith in the Trinity, that is one of the most difficult doctrines to teach and understand. I've witnessed many Christian Pastors shy away from teaching this for fear of misleading or not in themselves being able to see for themselves the Holy Trinity.

While we do appreciate the knowledge of understanding men that have committed their lives to God that bring us to the most important thing to remember, and that is to have a personal relationship with Christ. God wants us to concentrate on having a relationship with his beloved Son. We are not going to agree with every detail, what we are to discern is what details are most important and let the rest not divide us. I remember once as a child not being able to eat candy, or having a bed time early. I couldn't then understand what was best for me, and realize now I am not to question the Lord for He has our best welfare in mind.

I personally feel at times that the Devil can be working on me, and when I burn out he's right there that old man in my ear speaking to me asking whether all this is believable. We seem to agree on the key issues, Trinity, Man, God's image. and the saving grace through Jesus Christ that makes it possible through his blood for us to stand righteous before the Throne of God. Right?

And although we are not going to agree about every detail, however I find that there is truth in every teaching that I have come to understand although it seems that with age and knowledge of scripture I am able to discern more and more about what is from God. The concepts of Heaven and Hell are tough, and I listen to many here attempt to describe them. However, I also feel that if one of the most educated people concerning the law, one or perhaps the most articulate person this world has ever seen, the apostle Paul who couldn't do so, then why would we expect others or ourselves to be able to accomplish such a feat?

I think that the most important thing for us as Christians is to build a close relationship with others in the Church. This isn't the Church of man, this is the Church of Christ, where we all as Christians have dedicated our lives. We have through all our doubts placed our faith in Christ and too should give this same acknowledgement to all who have likewise committed themselves.

I'd like to comment on Hell. My personal interpretation of Hell fell under more of the definition of Sheol for the longest time. Then I realized that the greatest Hell for a Christian to endure is to be separated from the Lord for eternity, unable to praise Him, exalt Him, worship Him and Love Him. Our ultimate goal is to become His servants and one day serve the Lord throughout eternity. That is what we are being prepared for here, and being equipped in learning the most selfless acts and of those that had ever been witnessed in history.

Last point in case, sometimes we need to grow in our faith. And that may make us find another Church to attend. Sometimes we grow stagnant where we are, and need to uproot ourselves and find more fertile ground to produce better fruit. We should not be thirsty for the word of God, we should be planted by a stream.

Psalm 1

Happy the man who has not walked in the wicked’s counsel,
Nor in the way of offenders has stood,
Nor in the session of scoffers has sat.

But the LORD’s teaching is his desire,
And His teaching he murmurs day and night.

Notice how we walked… stood… sat. Walking on a way is a traditional metaphor for pursuing a set of moral choices in life. Attachment to the company of evildoers becomes increasingly more habitual. Don't let this happen to you, I know in one point in life I was drawn away from the Church and walked... stood.. and sat amongst people who had no way repented for their sins, and had no intention to carry on in life without change.

Thanks for hearing me out. I just thought to share my own personal thoughts and experiences with the Church. For years I went from and to many until finding the right place, where I am able to grow in a relationship with our beloved Christ.

Hey Shim, I'd like to thank you for your post. I'm going to try to respond to it section by section.

Originally Posted by Shim

Most people appeal to “interpretation” because they don’t like another alternative. After having read the Bible you come up with an interpretation until hearing the commentary of a Godly person, and you are then convinced that you are wrong. And so we later run into another Godly person who gives the same interpretation we once had. Take for example the speaking in tongues, one language all can understand. How many people have you heard that sound like babbling idiots attempting to do so? Could you understand them? Click Click changes the television station.

I am very open to examining other alternatives. I am always open to hearing other's interpretation. Personally, I enjoy hearing it and it is food for thought. I believe I can learn from it. What I have learned is there have been doctrines that have been taught throughout the years that influences people's views on what the Bible means. I have been to church and to many churches. One thing I have learned is that almost every pastor gives a different interpretation of what the passages mean and ties it in with life hoping that they captivate their audience. I have learned that these people have learned how to speak with conviction and this can grip many people if you are not listening to what is being said carefully. In addition to all of this, I believe that if this edifies a person and makes them want to seek God even more then Amen and So be it! Where there is God, there is goodness and where there is God there is love for He is the source of Love and Love is the maker of all.

When it comes to speaking in tongues, I have been around many who speak in tongues. At times I feel so full of love in my own heart that I have begun to sing in tongues. I have found that the people I have been around have often found themselves lost in their speaking and have rejoiced in the Spirit. What they are saying I do not know. But I refrain from judging. My grandma was a speaker of tongues. And through the speaking of tongues she often casted out spirits by the Spirit.


Maybe at some point the Holy Spirit is convicting your Christian conscious? That guilt and that wrongdoing that is brought to light, is the workings of the Holy Spirit? I commend you on your understanding and faith in the Trinity, that is one of the most difficult doctrines to teach and understand. I've witnessed many Christian Pastors shy away from teaching this for fear of misleading or not in themselves being able to see for themselves the Holy Trinity.
Now in terms of the Holy Spirit convicting my Christ consciousness I am not sure what you mean. I am also unsure by what you mean by guilt and wrongdoings that are brought to light. My hope is that you can explain what you mean so that I do not misinterpret your words. I believe that God sees all that I do here and God knows that I am seeking to enter into total unity with Him. The guilt I feel does not come from God but from man. There has been many a time when I have been reminded in the spirit to place my faith in God and to do good. Personally, I believe that we are all made in the image of God (not the image of a man but the spirit because that is what God is: Spirit, Truth (light), Love, Good)! All have received that one breath of life from the maker of God and that is what makes us each individual expressions of God, the Divine. And we can choose to express that godly nature at any time.) When I feel I have erred, or expressed an "ungodly nature" (negativity, hatred, jealousy, envy, rage, dramatic behavior) I ask for forgiveness (from the individual(s) and also from God for not representing Him in the best light) and then proceed to correct what I have done. I am not arguing here, I am only trying to express what I got from what you just posted. Please do correct me if I've misinterpreted...


While we do appreciate the knowledge and understanding men that have committed their lives to God that bring to us to the one most important thing to remember, and that is to have a personal relationship with Christ. God wants us to concentrate on having a relationship with his beloved Son. We are not going to agree with every detail, what we are to discern is what details are most important and let the rest not divide us.
This is where I begin to feel slight disagreement. Very slight. See, I believe Christ came to guide us to maker of all (God). I believe that the relationship we have with Christ ( following in his example, doing good work, helping our fellow man and taking care of the Earth that was given to us from the beginning for our nourishment and care) is to bring us to God.

I personally feel at times that the Devil can be working on me, and when I burn out he's right there that old man in my ear speaking to me asking whether all this is believable. We seem to agree on the key issues, Trinity, Man, God's image. and the saving grace through Jesus Christ that makes it possible through his blood for us to stand righteous before the Throne of God. Right?
This is what gets me as well. There are those who do good, but through ignorance have not had the saving grace of Jesus Christ that makes it possible through his blood for them to stand righteous before the Throne of God. I don't believe that good people will be pushed aside because of their unknowingness of Jesus. I have friends who have been raised Buddhist. Good people, loving people, more caring than many of the Christians I have met who have gone to church, to Bible study and have still be unable to understand what is written in the Bible. Nevertheless they pray at night, go to temple and are seeking a relationship with God (I believe we can call this God-fearing).

And although we are not going to agree about every detail, however I find that there is truth in every teaching that I have come to understand. The concepts of Heaven and Hell are tough, and I listen to many here attempt to describe them. However, I also feel that if one of the most educated people concerning the law, one or perhaps the most articulate persons this world has ever seen, the apostle Paul can't do, so why would we expect others or ourselves to be able to accomplish such a feat?
Because the spirit does not limit itself. Perhaps it was not Paul's call to answer those particular questions at that time. These, of course, are questions I cannot answer and all of it will be speculation. But if someone believes that the interpretation that they have received is true, allows them to do the most good, and brings them closer to God, who am I or we to tell them that they are wrong?

I think that the most important thing for us as Christians is to build a close relationship with others in the Church. This isn't the Church of man, this is the Church of Christ, where we all as Christians have dedicated our lives. We have through all our doubts placed our faith in Christ and too should give this same acknowledgement to all who have likewise committed themselves.

I'd like to comment on Hell. My personal interpretation of Hell fell under more of the definition of Sheol for the longest time. Then I realized that the greatest Hell for a Christian to endure is to be separated from the Lord for eternity, unable to praise Him, exalt Him, worship Him and Love Him. Our ultimate goal is to become His servants and one day serve the Lord throughout eternity. That is what we are being prepared for here, and being equipped in learning the most selfless acts and of those that had ever been witnessed in history.
I agree with you.
Last point in case, sometimes we need to grow in our faith. And that may make us find another Church to attend. Sometimes we grow stagnant where we are, and need to uproot ourselves and find more fertile ground to produce better fruit. We should not be thirsty for the word of God, we should be planted by a stream.

Psalm 1

Happy the man who has not walked in the wicked’s counsel,
Nor in the way of offenders has stood,
Nor in the session of scoffers has sat.

But the LORD’s teaching is his desire,
And His teaching he murmurs day and night.

Notice how we walked… stood… sat. Walking on a way is a traditional metaphor for pursuing a set of moral choices in life. Attachment to the company of evildoers becomes increasingly more habitual. Don't let this happen to you, I know in one point in life I was drawn away from the Church and walked... stood.. and sat amongst people who had no way repented of their sins, and had no intention to carry on in life without change.
I understand what you are saying here. I have done the same. But not in the idea of the church but in the idea of life in general. I have been so attached to materials and to bodily desires and I have paid the price for it all. And I have been "saved". Some people are unaware that there is anything beyond the body. I cannot judge them. Who am I? But I can make a choice to look within (to where I believe the Kingdom of God is) and to edify my spirit and to walk in a way that is uplifting, that gives me the most peace, joy, and connectivity to the Divine.
Thanks for hearing me out. I just thought to share my own personal thoughts and experiences with the Church. For years I went from and to many until finding the right place, where I am able to grow in a relationship with our beloved Christ.
Thank you for posting. I hope you respond to what I've posted. I very much enjoyed responding to this.

I enjoyed reading your response very much Dynamist. I haven't anything to add really, thinking that between us both much has been said. Maybe one thing, perhaps and this from a Christian standpoint is that we will one day be judged for the truth we either adhered by or rejected. This would cover "the man on the island" ect.

And to elaborate:

Regarding the Holy Spirit. In light of the Jewish idea of the Holy Spirit, The Holy Spirit was the person who brought God’s truth to men and women, the Holy Spirit who taught people of God what Jesus brings, God’s truth to them as every new discovery in every realm of thought is the gift of the Spirit. The spirit enters into our minds and turns our human guesses into divine certainty, and changes our human ignorance into divine knowledge.

The Holy Spirit not only brought God’s truth, the Spirit enabled them to recognize that truth when they saw it. Whether blinded by ignorance, led astray by prejudices, darkened by sin and passions. Jesus comes into our hearts, our eyes open to truly see, teaches us how to look and opens our eyes until we are able to see the truth.

By the way I edited the prior post but hadn't changed much in the way of significance.

Originally Posted by Shim

I enjoyed reading your response very much Dynamist. I haven't anything to add really, thinking that between us both much has been said. Maybe one thing, perhaps and this from a Christian standpoint is that we will one day be judged for the truth we either adhered by or rejected. This would cover "the man on the island" ect.

And to elaborate:

Regarding the Holy Spirit. In light of the Jewish idea of the Holy Spirit, The Holy Spirit was the person who brought God’s truth to men and women, was the Holy Spirit who taught people of God what Jesus brings God’s truth to them every new discovery in every realm of thought is the gift of the Spirit. The spirit enters into our minds and turns our human guesses into divine certainty, and changes our human ignorance into divine knowledge

The Holy Spirit not only brought God’s truth, the Spirit enabled them to recognize that truth when they saw it. Whether blinded by ignorance, led astray by prejudices, darkened by sin and passions. Jesus comes into our hearts, our eyes open to truly see, teaches us how to look and opens our eyes until we are able to see the truth.

By the way I edited the prior post but hadn't changed much in the way of significance.

Oh my...while I loved reading your post, I don't think I'll be going back to reread it a fifth time. lol If you say it hasn't changed much in the way of significance, then I will believe you.

Glad to meet you Shim

[SeaZen]

Originally Posted by Dynamist

Dear people,
For a long time I've struggled with the idea of Christianity. I don't want to start a bashing, but I am posting this here so I guess I'll get what I get. I want to say beforehand that my tone in this piece is not one of hostility but of searching, questioning, and, philosophy, and theory.

Welcome to the club Dyna! You are not the first the last or the only one that has struggled with this.

I spent my childhood under the ideas of Catholicism. My grandmother was very much into her religion but she had many gifts of the spirit (prophecy, saw spirits, spoke in tongues, casting out spirits, etc). Just before her death, these gifts increased. Sometimes, while she was resting, she would be called out in the spirit and began to "travel". The people around her were also affected by her energy as my mom began to have prophetic dreams that served as a protection to my grandma until her death. When she died, she visited me in a dream and I was also called out to a higher plane (which as a child I said was heaven though it looked nothing like what I was taught in religion. It was beautiful nonetheless) I was introduced to her brother (who died when she was 4) and we played games and she told me that she was alright, happy, everything will be okay. I was the only one who didn't cry at her funeral. She was not truly dead to me

Our forebears had little choice but to express their spirituality via a religious lens as that was the vibe of the earthly society at that time. My elderly mother is highly spiritual and open minded about respecting the path of other people and their religions but is fiercely devoted to her christian upbringing and ways. Nothing wrong with that. Religious people can have the same spiritual experiences that non-religious spiritual people can have. Generations however change and ask deeper questions and wish to evolve their thinking and that seems to be what you (and the rest of us) are going through. That is OK. Trust your instincts and go with asking these deeper questions and evolving your spirituality. It is quite natural.

Anyways, for as long as I can remember, I've felt protection. I believe we all have angels that look out for us. I have seen mine, felt mine, and have had my love reinforced through these messengers. To this day, I am constantly reminded that I am under the care (and not the judgment) of God. But I have become somewhat disillusioned by what is taught on the pulpit.

You have come a long way Dyna! The realization that God is unconditional love/support and not some dysfunctional judgmental psycho that the pulpit would have us believe is a big step in awareness. Religion was created by man. Our hearts is where God resides and that is where you will find the truth and not in the words of some religious institution, an ancient text, or a human dressed in religious garb.

Despite my love for God(he first loved us) and my deep appreciation and support for Jesus, every time I go to church or read the Bible I get a different interpretation of what is being taught. I don't believe the Bible is a lesson in making money or having the perfect life from a materialistic standpoint. While it is possible to have these things, in all things I think we need to put God first and love him. I feel that while church can be uplifting, there are times when I feel it leaves people feeling powerless, unaware of their own godly nature. I have been condemned on many occasions by Christians who say I will go to "hell" if I don't believe that the Bible is the direct word of God nor accept Jesus as my Lord and savior.

You need to remember that these are people and their personal perceptions of god as taught to them by other people/religious institutions are condemning you and not god itself. How is it that they know the "ultimate truth" and why should you follow them? Learn to trust what god tells you via the direct connect you have with her in your heart and not what other people, the church or certain written words tell you. I think you have come a long way in that regard by the nature of your questions and awareness!

I have met many people who are loving, God-fearing (not in the way many interpret it) individuals, who have treated everyone with love and respect who were not raised in a Christian household. Why ought they go to "hell" (which I also don't really believe in) while others who say they believe in Jesus but who abuse this earth, its people, animals, and other living things go to "heaven"? Just because they say, "I am a Christian."

I have met many people who have a heart of gold who are not christian as well and have asked the same questions you did. How can a loving god condemn a soul to eternal torment just because they happened to be unfortunate enough to be born in mongolia or some other country that "the good news" of the bible hasn't reached yet? Trust this questioning and instinct and move forward with it. It will take you to a truthful, wonderful, loving place devoid of religious fear. I asked shim this question on another thread and he was unable or unwilling to respond. This is quite telling about whether you should listen to others as opposed to your own heart.

That is another idea that I do not understand. Heaven and Hell. For I believe it can be many things. Hell (where the fire isn't quenched and the worm doesn't die) can be a state where people's needs are never met, where they are never satisfied, where their constant longing for material possessions leaves them in eternal suffering. Heaven can be a state of total union with God and the realization that God is providing for all our needs because he already knows what we need. Maybe hell is something many experience everyday when they hop in their cars and go to a job they hate, spend their life worrying about financial gain, go about condemning others and judging others (so that the person now believes that they are sinful and evil for being who they are) and living in so much fear that we don't help our neighbors believing that we won't have any for ourselves if we do...

Your concept of hell is quite accurate. It is not a place we end up when we die if we don't live up to some standards as dictated by the religious christian church but a negative state of mind/beliefs that keeps us separated from the love within and connection to the divine. Think of the false doctrine/belief of "rejection" we discussed earlier.

As I go further into my desire to understand Christianity and where all the fear comes from, I have been faced with other obstacles. My own curiosity and the fear that surrounds it. I have been condemned on numerous occasions because I said there were parts of the Bible that I don't fully agree with. I feel a slight aversion to some of the words by Paul. But Paul is not here so I cannot have this discussion with him. What has gotten me is that Christianity has made things so narrow that even the people they now accept were rejected because of things they did not understand. How can we help people if all we do is go around condemning them and throwing biblical passages in their face telling them they are evil and we ourselves don't fully understand what we are reading? I believe this is one way of how people become possessed. The fear, the constant condemnation that an individual is evil because we do not understand them can open a door to things that are not in the best interest of the individual. Is it not better to exude a nature of love and kindness, honesty, and patience? So that people can then look on and say, "How does this person do what they do?"

The fear comes from people and their limited and/or lack of understanding of their own spiritual nature. If you look at christianity as a whole, there are many different sects and beliefs. You have pentecostals, snake handlers, catholics, mormons, jehovahs witness etc. etc. etc. Each of these sects differ greatly in their HUMAN interpretation of words from a text called "the bible" and all of them, bar none, feel they have the correct exclusive interpretation of these words and subsequently, "the ultimate truth". Do you wish sift through all of these fallible, error prone human interpretations and adopt one of them as the "ultimate truth" or do you prefer to look into your own heart and trust your direct connect with the unconditional love known as God?

I realize that no one is perfect. I'm not perfect. And we all do things that might not have been in anyone's best interest. I respect Christians and their beliefs. But what I have trouble with is the idea of going around condemning people because of their uncertainty or because of their inability to understand what they're reading or because of ignorance. Christians have told me on numerous occasion that this is not what they do. But I have seen them on the pulpit and when the differing of ideas come in and they immediately go, "That is a demon that is leading these people astray!" Why? Why all the guilt, pain, and condemnation? What is its use?

Guilt, pain and condemnation are only useful for those un-evolved souls who desire power over and control of others. This is not of god but of man. I am not saying that those who promote these concepts are consciously evil, most are not. They are deluded, misguided souls that believe what was taught them from one generation to the next. You need to ask yourself, will you be one of those deluded souls or will you break free and know the truth of unconditional love?

Anyways, I'm sorry if this comes off harsh. I consider my a Christian (because of my deep love and feelings of closeness to The Christ) and a mystic but I am very disillusioned with Christianity. I sometimes feel as though it is leading people astray and leaving them hostile and powerless.

Your instincts serve you well Dyna! There were no camcorders, tapedecks etc. during the time of christ, only word of mouth from one generation to the next. The gospels weren't actually written by the apostles themselves but by others 40 years later from word of mouth. Also there were schisms and conflicts in early christianity between various sects (gnostic vs catholic) . Also, the "new testament" was created by a religious institutional council of humans which decided which texts of hundreds should be included etc. My point is we don't really know the complete comprehensive truth of christ and his teachings because of this. How do we come to know truth? Go the direct route as Jesus suggested! Ask god instead of some human religious institution, then look inside your heart for those answers and err on the side and feeling of warmth and unconditional love! By reading your post, it looks as if you have been doing so thus far! Keep up the good work!

Much love,
SeaZen

Beautiful post SeaZen!

Hey SeaZen,

I appreciated your post. I realize that I can't get people on my bandwagon and it isn't my job to do so. I can only speak my truth and move on. But sometimes it gets so painful to watch people get condemned left, right and center! And I didn't realize how painful it was until I myself was condemned. I keep thinking, "Whoa whoa whoa! Love and guidance is really different from fear and control guys..." If we're going to evolve together we really have to learn how to operate in love and unity and fear and division.

I really enjoy the Bible! But the more I read it, the deeper the words become for me, the less I see it as others do. I take religion class and when I learn of the history and how things got put together I think, "Why some books and not the other?" Things don't add up. Or the way some parts seem to be missing. I want to learn more, but when I learn something, "Only the pastor can truly interpret the Scripture" or "Well the pastor said that the Bible said..." I think, "But did you read it yourself? Did you meditate on it, did you reflect? Do you know the history or how the Bible was put together? Would it even make a difference?" Probably not. The fear has become so great that people would shrug it off and just keep on doing what they do too afraid to make a change...

Oh well...all about patience and tolerance I guess...I appreciated Shim's response though. I know we don't all know the answers but I thought his words were food for thought.