When the Ego hinders the spirit

[lemex]

Originally Posted by weareunity

If the suggestion made in 152 has validity, then it should be possible to get some idea concerning any validity by the following method:-

If we first allow the suggestion to be valid for the purpose of the exercise, then figure out what would be needed within the framework of that suggestion in order to allow the "I" to abandon the pattern of self centred behaviour and perception in favour of behaviour not so detrimental to either society at large or that particular individual, then this "therapeutic process" ( for want of a better term) could be applied, and if successful would indicate in some measure that the original suggestion has validity.

Now of course we would not be in a position perhaps to apply this process with an emergent "I" as subject. But I would suggest that the pattern of self centred behaviour and perception adopted at that early stage is likely to persist into adulthood if no alternative means of affirmation is offered and accepted. This simply because it is difficult to change that upon which you have become dependant, --in this case self centred behaviour,--by means available within that self centred perception. I suggest it needs an input of the required kind from an external source in order for that change to take place.

So, it should I believe be possible to apply the" therapeutic process" to an adult and then observe the results in order to test the validity of the suggestion.

I would further suggest that this has already been done. The "therapeutic process" is I think basically the offering of acceptance and significance to the "I" thereby allowing the self centred perception and behaviour to become redundant and so discarded in favour of something which was actually sought tough not found anyway, and also actually fulfills the need. Love, compassion, understanding, companionship.

These will be recognised as being the central considerations characterising some beliefs, long established but often understood as virtues to be sought rather than ways to use.

petex

I really like this! I have to say experience has shown me this is true and central to my heart. I also feel how little importance is place on it, meaning we make it less important then it should be imo. Cause and effect.

Originally Posted by lemex

Ego can defend only what it knows but a person can always know more, ie: spiritual. Do you think the ego is the decision maker? Spirituality can be hindered by the decisions we make is my thought to the original question.

lemex,

This is helpful. Ego produces its own logic.....and this logic proceeds from what it perceives to be true. Perhaps ego has a way of over-reliance on preconceptions? In effect, tying itself to the past. Perhaps this is why so many on the spiritual path put great emphasis of living in the moment. i.e. seeing the here and now as an opportunity to perceive something in a new way. In this light, IMO, spirituality is ultimately hindered by our inability to realize the truth.

[Moonglow]

Originally Posted by lemex

Again you bring up some very insightful ideas which seem to agree with things I'm seeing and have read. If we are going to define the ego we have to now define the self. Do we think ego is the same as Self. If I understand aspects of self, ego is an aspect of it and as an aspect only a part. The ego is surprisingly not the (whole) Self. In this conversation the ego is the decision maker hence why imo important.

Of course Ego is awareness of self (it knows) but also not aware Self is larger and there are parts of self ego does not know. Ego is our subjective part of being conscious. Ego is part of being subjective. Ego relies on the known not the unknown part of Self. The un or sub conscious is not ego. So ego is defended what is known not unknown, things it cannot imagine (image). Jung for instance believed in the shadow ego which today is repression. He had belief how it and other aspects should be incorporated into the self. That there are simply parts of self that are hidden. So how can decisions be made when parts of self are hidden. No one has said if the ego expands (grows as more is brought into conscious awareness) which is what I see. That as one becomes more aware and the unknown (of or in Self) becomes smaller by becoming known ego grows and blossoms, it has to change because it sees more, it's known is greater and ego cannot do anything opposite to itself. The Self is the classroom.

I think Self is not ego and as Self opens ego changes. Ego can defend only what it knows but a person can always know more, ie: spiritual. Do you think the ego is the decision maker? Spirituality can be hindered by the decisions we make is my thought to the original question.

Hi lemex,

I can relate that decisions can affect how one acts upon something or not and this can have influence upon ones spirituality.

Is "ego" the deciding part of the self? IMO, it plays a part for how I may think something to be or someone to be can affect the decisions made. I see "ego" as that thinking part of self. As you present what one may know at present.

What you present also brings further thoughts. How much held in the subconscious (hidden) aspects affect ones decisions? May respond or react in ways influenced by what may be hidden or one is unaware is there.

Also feel we are not just "ego". As shared by others and you, there appears to be other aspects as well to consider and notice. So it seems these other aspects of self, those that may seem hidden and those that seem intuitive help bring awareness to the consciousness. It all seems to interact to me.

It is a good point you bring that " ego" defends what it knows. As awareness grows, it may be what is known may grow, but also what is not. This seem to be what I experience.

Looking at ego just being the conscious state in self, then can understand how it can grow and understand through oneself becoming more aware.

Thank you for your insights

[weareunity]

Hello Moonglow. Thanks for your thoughts.
In response to your direct question, my thoughts are that it depends upon why and how, but that is my opinion. My chosen way is that I do not seek to convince, but hope that in sharing thoughts and observations we may each be helped in finding our own answers. In my case alongside that hope rides the concern that I have not been able, and perhaps am simply not able, to communicate my thoughts and observations with sufficient clarity.

petex

[weareunity]

Hello lemex. Thanks. It is good to feel to have struck a chord. I do not know if you are interested in such matters as I have alluded to in the last paragraph of the post to which you have kindly replied, but feel that you may be. If so I would be pleased to direct you another post on this forum which elaborates on this. petex

[Moonglow]

Originally Posted by weareunity

Hello Moonglow. Thanks for your thoughts.
In response to your direct question, my thoughts are that it depends upon why and how, but that is my opinion. My chosen way is that I do not seek to convince, but hope that in sharing thoughts and observations we may each be helped in finding our own answers. In my case alongside that hope rides the concern that I have not been able, and perhaps am simply not able, to communicate my thoughts and observations with sufficient clarity.

petex

Hi weareunity,

Thank you for sharing.

I too hope to be able to communicate my thoughts and observations in a clear way.

Will just add, am a curious fellow and so the questions at times.

Feel we each have something to share in ones own way and can inspire another.
You inspired me to respond, if misunderstood you, then that is on me. Thanks for taking the time to respond back.

Originally Posted by Moonglow

Namaste Greenslade,

What you present brings the thoughts back to "ego" being the identity of the self and how one relates to this.

Can relate that "ego" is the conscious aspect of ourselves. Jung comes to mind in the sense of recalling a book he wrote called Man and his Symbols. Which has me thinking that "ego" as being a symbol, then ask; What does it symbolize?

Mindfulness also comes to mind. Being aware of what is happening. How many pay attention to what is happening with in, without, and all around them? Reason for asking is it occurs to me that it all plays into the "ego" aspect of oneself. How one may relate to the self affecting how one relate to the world.

It plays into what is consciously noticed and what may seep into the unconconscious. Having remembered dreams, notice at times this playing out in my mind. The mind sorting through the information and bringing it to the forefront.

Yes, there are also those aspects passed down that seem to also play into our consciousness as a whole and individual.

Can go along with the outlook we create our reality, but in the sense of what may be perceived and/or believed to be real. Which seems to affect how one may judge things to be. Which in my book is not a bad thing, just the way to evaluate things. It is more in the manner how one projects these thoughts out that seem to have effects on another or not.

This can seem related to the "ego" aspect if "ego" is related to how one thinks it to be.

The thing that gets my mind going "hold on here" is that "ego" is just a symbol.
There is no real "ego". There is that which I am or we are aware/conscious of and that which I may or we are not be at present.

But, you do present an interesting twist to all this. That is our brain processing the information and it entering our physical consciousness seems to be one step behind what is occurring or just occurred.

Which brings back the thoughts on being mindfull, what others may call "street smart". Being aware of ones surroundings and in tune with it. Another subject perhaps here, but find it thought provoking. How many pay attention to this?

Namaste Moonglow

The ego is essentially the 'interface' between the external and internal worlds, between what's inside our selves in whatever shape or form that takes. An event unfolds in front of us and it's just cause and effect but we can turn it into an experience with all that it brings. It becomes something to be mindful of but even that is subjective because what are we to be mindful of? The bottom line is that an action is just an action and the experience is entirely subjective.

It's also the current result of everything we've experienced in our Lives and our perceptions of it, and how that's shaped us in so many ways. It's the symbol of the Journey of a Soul through this existence. Spirituality is pretty myopic because it only looks though the lens of theologies and ideologies - as is what's happening here but there's always more to it than meets the eye. I guess all we see is all we look at.

The question for me is how is ego perceived by our Soul? We all have a Soul inside but it's largely forgotten about in the crazy rush to be Spiritual and what's never thought about is how the Soul perceives it all and what we are really conscious of. If you were a Soul how would you perceive your ego and it's Journey through this existence? Your ego has suffered "the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune" as Shakespeare put it in Hamlet, so what does it say about us as we condemn it and judge it, and if we can't integrate it as a valid aspect of our existence what then? If we can't learn from it, nurture it? What then Spirituality?

[weareunity]

Hello there Moonglow. Grateful for your post --curious fellow, and pleased to be a similar fellow. I raise a cup to curiosity and all which that entails, including the acceptance of uncertainty. We stumble on. All the best. petex

[Moonglow]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Namaste Moonglow

The ego is essentially the 'interface' between the external and internal worlds, between what's inside our selves in whatever shape or form that takes. An event unfolds in front of us and it's just cause and effect but we can turn it into an experience with all that it brings. It becomes something to be mindful of but even that is subjective because what are we to be mindful of? The bottom line is that an action is just an action and the experience is entirely subjective.

It's also the current result of everything we've experienced in our Lives and our perceptions of it, and how that's shaped us in so many ways. It's the symbol of the Journey of a Soul through this existence. Spirituality is pretty myopic because it only looks though the lens of theologies and ideologies - as is what's happening here but there's always more to it than meets the eye. I guess all we see is all we look at.

The question for me is how is ego perceived by our Soul? We all have a Soul inside but it's largely forgotten about in the crazy rush to be Spiritual and what's never thought about is how the Soul perceives it all and what we are really conscious of. If you were a Soul how would you perceive your ego and it's Journey through this existence? Your ego has suffered "the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune" as Shakespeare put it in Hamlet, so what does it say about us as we condemn it and judge it, and if we can't integrate it as a valid aspect of our existence what then? If we can't learn from it, nurture it? What then Spirituality?

Namaste Greenslade,

Thank you for clarifying.

Can relate to it being cause and effect. Most of my wondering and wanderings is finding understandings of these. Can ask; Why did that happen? Who am I? All the othe other whys, how's, what, ect. If noticing the effects, it comes to me, understanding the cause comes in handy. Both play on each.

The conscious mind seems to get categorized as well. Dividing in it into sections, which for me may cause a division with in the self if taken not so much as focal points, but separate. Suppose at times maybe necessary to look at aspects of the self in order to get at the root cause(s), but isn't it al of the consciousness?

The question comes because if looking at a Soul perspective, then it seems all would be inclusive with in and of the journey.

Yes, we are individuals as well with ones own take and experiences to add to the mix. Which I am tending at present to relate "ego" as being that aspect (individual) that is explored.

For it gets said, depends on ones point of view, each has his/her way of looking at it, and each expresses thier opinion, perspective, knowing, and insight. This indicates to me that "ego" is alive and well with in us.

So, if desired to have a better result, then would think, understanding the cause can bring clarity to the thoughts. Which I feel some of the practices, idealogies, theories, and such attempt to bring to the forefront.

The trick is to not get too caught up in it, but take in what is needed at present.
Some things are not meant for me. Perhaps this is a clue pointing to what the Souls' journey is about. Take in what is for me and what is not let go and leave it for others.

So, back to the question; Does ego hinder spiritual growth? Seems not. If felt or observed within that in its own ways what occurs (cause and effect) seems to create the journey. How it is perceived seems to create how one travels upon the path.

Then isn't all that one experiences also experienced by Soul? Isn't this what Spirtuality pointing to, growth and awareness?

If the Soul travels through many lifetimes, then ego seems a temporary construct within oneself anyways. There may lie the difference between the journey as an individual and the journey as a Soul.

One is only for the time being (individual self), while the other is for the long run (or eternal, if preferred. Soul).

We are experiencing both, IMO. The ego aspect helps in being human and sorting things out. Also helps in connecting with the Soul (or the deeper aspects) and understanding what this may bring as well.

[Raziel]

Originally Posted by Moonglow

If the Soul travels through many lifetimes, then ego seems a temporary construct within oneself anyways. There may lie the difference between the journey as an individual and the journey as a Soul.

One is only for the time being (individual self), while the other is for the long run (or eternal, if preferred. Soul).

We are experiencing both, IMO. The ego aspect helps in being human and sorting things out. Also helps in connecting with the Soul (or the deeper aspects) and understanding what this may bring as well.

Thats a pretty cool interpretation

My understanding is that if you accept that your spiritual energy/ soul are part of infinity & that your physical being is also part of it too then the Ego would be gone.

You may well be known as John Smith on earth, but your not only John Smith .. the whole package is part of everything that exists.

If your not too bothered about material things etc then it goes a long way.

Ultimately you are always complete - you just need to understand how that is so in a body that craves everything under the sun .
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Ps. when someone is smug about coming to this understanding ... they still don't get it....

It's not an actual achievement when the truth has always been written on your inside labels .
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