Spirituality approached with reason(further thoughts)

[deztini3]

I recently created a thread here where i said that there exists nothing but faith.

And my final conclusion on what i have read from the comments, is that all of you say that and admit that there is nothing that can prove the existence of the divine, except yourself, to yourself.

Why do some people seek to find meaning beyond what their eyes can see and some don´t?

It all depends on personal experiences. If you have stumbled upon things that to your eyes seems unnatural, then you are bound to become curious about what caused it.

Some people instantly jump to the conclusion that it was caused by the supernatural(god, ghosts, etc..) And my theory is that, it could very well be a placebo effect from there on. Most of you will disregard this theory as false, because you have established a strong belief system.

Some people(like me) investigate further.

I mean, when we look at our species(the only specie thats supposed to have a spirit)

When exactly did we gain those spirits?

Will other primates such as gorillas, if they will advance into becoming as conscious as we are, will they gain spirits?

Did "god" give us consciousness all the sudden, and we became aware of our being for that reason, or did our brains evolve into becoming conscious?

I mean, its not like we were stupid before we gained a "mind"

Its not like gorillas are stupid at this point. A gorilla can be taught a language consisting of 3000 words or above. A gorilla can be taught the concept of death..

It all points to the direction, that we simply evolved into becoming so brainy, that we became more aware of our being because of evolution. And if that is the case(which it most likely is) then there was no need for a soul to begin with, because the soul is supposed to represent the mind.

Neuroscience is always unlocking new information about the brain. And if we can see a physical structure that creates consciousness, then there is no need for a spirit. Know where i´m going?

If we ever create a computer that is aware of what it is, then we have disproved the existence of a soul.

As you can see from what i have written, i allow myself to be skeptical. Is it not right to be skeptical about a subject such as this?

As i have said before, i am horrified of the thought of a non spiritual world or a world without god and spirits. Why? Because i hate that everything can be understood. I hate that we are nothing but meatsacks capable of strong emotions. And the fact that nothing matters.

If i don´t have a soul, then i am nothing. I will feel dead already. I will feel like an intelligent ape that can´t do anything about his inevitable fate, to live for such a short time, and to become dead forever, never being able to experience anything else again.

But i am not going to go on to try to explain the feelings i have towards death, we all have our concept of what death is, and my concept is unfortunately as it is.

The purpose of this thread, was to simply give you my further thoughts on spiritualism. I will forever continue to seek evidence for the existence of the spiritual world, but i will always remain skeptical as well, now please if you would like; state your opinions on my opinions, I like to reason with people. And keep that in mind that this thread is not too tell me that i should seek inside of myself. I know myself very well, and i can´t see what i could possibly find inside of me that can tell me about spirits and whatnot.

[Silver]

Some people instantly jump to the conclusion that it was caused by the supernatural(god, ghosts, etc..) And my theory is that, it could very well be a placebo effect from there on. Most of you will disregard this theory as false, because you have established a strong belief system.

Some people(like me) investigate further.

I mean, when we look at our species(the only specie thats supposed to have a spirit)

Hmm. Not so sure the placebo effect fits. I think 'most' of us wouldn't necessarily disregard it...many if not most of us weren't necessarily Christians or some other established religion from a young age, which would mean to a degree we were conditioned, and that sort of thing. Many people would 'accept' that they had X experience and simply continue on in their lives, waiting for something to come along that helps establish a fuller explanation, KNOWING that some pieces of the puzzle may come along or not. I think it would do you or anyone else for that matter well to study the word faith.

Some people believe all species have spirits. I do.

Neuroscience is always unlocking new information about the brain. And if we can see a physical structure that creates consciousness, then there is no need for a spirit. Know where i´m going?

If we ever create a computer that is aware of what it is, then we have disproved the existence of a soul.

Whether or not there is a 'need' for a spirit does not preclude that there is none. You could benefit from a course in Logic. Not that I'm the most logical person (although I did take beginner Logic). Consciousness or lack thereof either way, has a lot of explaining to do. These things are invisible.

What's the purpose of joy (happiness), and all the other intangibles if we are meat stacks? That's not logical. You have experienced joy, happiness, and a fondness for others called love, haven't you? That's not logical.

I'll bet you if you took a course in Logic, you would no longer have a lot of these questions. Although it may or may not help further you along in your discovery of spirit or not.

Years ago I used to sell encyclopedias door to door. One day I was chased out of a yard by a bull terrier and dropped all my paper work in the yard. It took me about 2 hours to retrieve it all without being bitten.........I've never liked bull terriers since...

[deztini3]

Originally Posted by not human

Years ago I used to sell encyclopedias door to door. One day I was chased out of a yard by a bull terrier and dropped all my paper work in the yard. It took me about 2 hours to retrieve it all without being bitten.........I've never liked bull terriers since...

[Squatchit]

Hi deztini

Thank you for sharing.

It's interesting because I feel the opposite to you with regards to if there is no spiritual world. In fact, I fluctuate between half-believing (hoping) there is, and fully believing there isn't. I like the idea that the adventure continues.

But if this is my one and only stab at life and when I'm gone, I'm dust...then it makes me want to embrace it so much more, so fully. To positively 'eat' life with great gusto. It doesn't mean everything is understood - heck, we don't even know how a cat purrs.

Anyway, just to say I'm more aligned with your views than the so-called spiritual community. But I put a different spin on those views.

Squatch

It doesn't mean everything is understood - heck, we don't even know how a cat purrs.

How Do Cats Purr

It turns out that cats have special wiring! The wiring travels from the brain to the muscles in the voice box, and this wiring is able to vibrate the muscles so that they act as a valve for air flowing past the voice box. The muscles work both during inhalation and exhalation, which creates the impression that cats can purr continuously. The air passes through the valve, which opens and closes rapidly to create the purring sound.

[Silver]

Originally Posted by not human

How Do Cats Purr

It turns out that cats have special wiring! The wiring travels from the brain to the muscles in the voice box, and this wiring is able to vibrate the muscles so that they act as a valve for air flowing past the voice box. The muscles work both during inhalation and exhalation, which creates the impression that cats can purr continuously. The air passes through the valve, which opens and closes rapidly to create the purring sound.

Fascinating. I wish humans could purr.

[deztini3]

Originally Posted by Silvergirl

Hmm. Not so sure the placebo effect fits. I think 'most' of us wouldn't necessarily disregard it...many if not most of us weren't necessarily Christians or some other established religion from a young age, which would mean to a degree we were conditioned, and that sort of thing. Many people would 'accept' that they had X experience and simply continue on in their lives, waiting for something to come along that helps establish a fuller explanation, KNOWING that some pieces of the puzzle may come along or not. I think it would do you or anyone else for that matter well to study the word faith.

Some people believe all species have spirits. I do.

In what sense does a cat progress spiritually? By chasing more weave balls?

Originally Posted by Silvergirl

Whether or not there is a 'need' for a spirit does not preclude that there is none. You could benefit from a course in Logic. Not that I'm the most logical person (although I did take beginner Logic). Consciousness or lack thereof either way, has a lot of explaining to do. These things are invisible.

Spirit in the definition i assume we all refer to; Some sort of true self, something that resides in our bodies and collects valuable experience from this life so that you can be born into another body experience enriched.

Something that was created by god, with a purpose of realizing the true meaning of life, whatever that may be.

Something that is our capability to recognize our feelings and being aware of our thoughts.

Now, of course, that what i mentioned above, is our "need" for a soul, if it exists am i right?

If there is no need for it, it doesnt exist.[/quote]

Originally Posted by Silvergirl

What's the purpose of joy (happiness), and all the other intangibles if we are meat stacks? That's not logical. You have experienced joy, happiness, and a fondness for others called love, haven't you? That's not logical.

I'll bet you if you took a course in Logic, you would no longer have a lot of these questions. Although it may or may not help further you along in your discovery of spirit or not.

I see you consistently try to remind me that my reasoning is broken, which is quite understandable, because it seems as if i have attacked your faith.

If you tried better to understand what i was saying, then you wouldnt be making such absurd claims.

emotions are nothing supernatural i assure you. We evolved the ability to have a more wide array of emotions because of our advanced brains. Emotions are needed for our social construct to function properly. If a person cheated you in business and you would feel nothing, well surely you see where i´m going with my point.

The point being, we are meatsacks that need emotions.

Originally Posted by Silvergirl

Fascinating. I wish humans could purr.

I bark like a dog....hahahahahaha

[Squatchit]

Oh fiddlesticks. Now everything is understood. Someone put me out of my misery.......no wait, I can still smell flowers and bask in the sunshine and eat chocolate and watch the little creatures and dance and smile and laugh and hug and love and learn and and and and...hold fire! I'm staying put.