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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Non Duality

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  #1  
Old 20-06-2019, 11:31 AM
Unseeking Seeker Unseeking Seeker is offline
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The Oneness enigma

***

For those who have been so blessed to experience Oneness in deep meditation ... the question is that having merged our in-form consciousness with Oneness awareness in the boundless sea of bliss and absoluteness, why are we dissolved and yet distinct?

To be more specific, among other possible paths provided by the Universe, during in-form awakening when we as consciousness or energy move up along the spine to the crown and then dissolve in the flow to enter space into the Oneness field, we are one with Oneness and yet in as ordained, distinct. Of course, reverse Oneness experience also happens when the Universe Itself descends into form ... there being no here and there or coming or going in actuality. So we then know that energetically or let us say vibrationally, all is One. Yet the aspect of duality or separateness of our consciousness remains.

Theory being meaningless from the practical standpoint ... all the stuff about self & non-self, being and not being, observing vs witnessing, knowing what is not to know what is and so on ... what we are saying is that in actual lived experience in the state of being flowing in the now continuum employing intuition rather than analysis (ego rested or disassociated) with a detached orientation of acceptance, fearlessness and desirelessness, there is a continuation of renewal of bliss with us as a receptor ... meaning that there is a separate person ... a receiver who feels blissful in the Oneness connectedness.

Connectedness is good but it is still separateness. A connected to B but not B. A is separate and B is separate.

The understanding by experiencing Oneness imparts the definitive wisdom of all being One no doubt but the state of so being restricted to the duration of the deep trance meditation when we are dissolved in the flow but even there as Oneness but not The Oneness in permanence.

So we emerge from the unified field back to the dualistic field wiser but not enabled.

I’ll be happy to get views from all who have so experienced Oneness and then plonked back into duality. How do we handle this oscillation?

***
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Last edited by Unseeking Seeker : 20-06-2019 at 12:25 PM.
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  #2  
Old 20-06-2019, 12:40 PM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unseeking Seeker
***

For those who have been so blessed to experience Oneness in deep meditation ... the question is that having merged our in-form consciousness with Oneness awareness in the boundless sea of bliss and absoluteness, why are we dissolved and yet distinct?

To be more specific, among other possible paths provided by the Universe, during in-form awakening when we as consciousness or energy move up along the spine to the crown and then dissolve in the flow to enter space into the Oneness field, we are one with Oneness and yet in as ordained, distinct. Of course, reverse Oneness experience also happens when the Universe Itself descends into form ... there being no here and there or coming or going in actuality. So we then know that energetically or let us say vibrationally, all is One. Yet the aspect of duality or separateness of our consciousness remains.

Theory being meaningless from the practical standpoint ... all the stuff about self & non-self, being and not being, observing vs witnessing and so on ... what we are saying is that in actual lived experience in the state of being flowing in the now continuum employing intuition rather than analysis (ego rested or disassociated) with a detached orientation of acceptance, fearlessness and desirelessness, there is a continuation of renewal of bliss with us as a receptor ... meaning that there is a separate person ... a receiver who feels blissful in the Oneness connectedness.

Connectedness is good but it is still separateness. A connected to B but not B. A is separate and B is separate.

The understanding by experiencing Oneness imparts the definitive wisdom of all being One no doubt but the state of so being restricted to the duration of the deep trance meditation when we are dissolved in the flow but even there as Oneness but not The Oneness in permanence.

So we emerge from the unified field back to the dualistic field wiser but not enabled.

I’ll be happy to get views from all who have so experienced Oneness and then plonked back into duality. How do we handle this oscillation?

***
In the general experiential and perceptual concept(s) of existence, this is perhaps the most difficult concept for my limited brain to actualise and conceptualise.

In my attempts to do so, I have delved into Vishistadvaita or Achintya Bheda-Abheda Tattwa, or simply, qualified monism or qualified (quantifiable) non-duality...in which, the observer merges with Oneness, yet is still aware of the "Oneness" as distinct from the observer (even though it also includes it somehow).

I cannot think of any simple analogy that does this justice...even the "water drop vs ocean" doesn't do it, because the drop loses its "drop-ness" as soon as it merges with the ocean...but in the case of total Laya..in the case of full absorption into Brahman, Prakriti is still distinct from Purusha, even though, in reality, there IS no distinction...and yet there is. One may not be aware of that distinction during the experience, because the bliss, the ananda just overrides it...but as soon as perception comes back into play, as soon as we get our brain back to "think with" or even our heart back to "feel with"...there it is again, even though we know the separation is due to Maya (Indra's Net)...but it also isn't.

As you also rightly stated, this is how "God" (as we can only comprehend how a "God" can exist), is able to assume a human form...or a "Light Body" form...or anything He/She/It so desires, as to resonate with the vibration of individual consciousness (as distinct from itself as being the Universal Consciousness) so as to appear as a "familiar concept" to the mind on all three levels (the Gunas) and manage to transcend itself THROUGH itself.

In this way, there is no distinction between Jivatman and Paramatman even though there IS and no distinction between Brahman and Parabrahman even though there IS...and no distinction between Mahadeva (Maheshwara) and Sadashiva or Lingam, even though there IS...it is the concept itself which needs to be transcended through the actual concept...yet, even after transcendence...even after realisation, the concept still remains as both a concept, yet also that which is "non conceptual"...pretty weird that.

Even after Ramana Maharishi attained to Samadhi...even Nirvikalpa Samadhi, in which all concepts, all namam and roopam (names and forms) are lost to Satchitananda (existence-consciousness-bliss), Mt. Arunachala was still there...it never went anywhere, not did Ramana Maharishi lose his fondness for it as an aspect of Lord Shiva's Grace, which led him to experience the Samadhi in the first place...however, Arunachala would still be Arunachala, but not the same Arunachala, because the perception of it would have shifted:
"First there is a mountain, then there is no mountain, then there is".
https://tricycle.org/magazine/first-...e-no-mountain/

This also depends on where consciousness resides in the body (or if it resides there at all) for it can be in one (or more) of each of the five sheaths, the pancha koshas simultaneously or independently...or the awareness may not even rest there at all..as evidenced by the second Shloka of Atma Shatakham written by Adi Shankaracharya:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.spe...hatakam/m-lite

When all is said and done, this is something that cannot really be spoken about, even though many try to do so...and get nowhere..or get plopped back into their thinking/reasoning mind with a "what the hell just happened to ME?" and then spend many lifetimes trying to figure it out...or chase that experience again, just for confirmation...or wonder if there is "more to it" instead of just accepting it as it IS...instead of just allowing it to happen through Grace...or on and of "its own accord" or whatever that case may be where there is no ego that is aware of where it was for the past *insert a time that doesn't exist here*.
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  #3  
Old 20-06-2019, 01:04 PM
Unseeking Seeker Unseeking Seeker is offline
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***

Love you Shivani but there is no safety in numbers (pun intended) since we are One ! LOL

Until light dawns, we sing this tune (reproduced from the poetry section)

Looking within at the turbidity
As gap between knowing & becoming
Even while flowing in the Divine stream with serenity
Patiently awaiting consciousness blossoming

The offered blessing as glimpse making clear our trajectory
To unify our consciousness with Oneness awareness in permanence
Hence recognising, recalling but distanced from memory drawn imagery
Viewing oscillation of our presence as playful whim of Divine dalliance

Yet having been and so seen the subtler
Divine entwined, love enabled, magnetism within in alignment
How may we not be discontent when immersed in domains grosser
Our seeking being unseeking we desire permanent enablement

As an identityless presence
One with Oneness
In permanence

***
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  #4  
Old 20-06-2019, 01:24 PM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unseeking Seeker
***

Love you Shivani but there is no safety in numbers (pun intended) since we are One ! LOL

Until light dawns, we sing this tune (reproduced from the poetry section)

Looking within at the turbidity
As gap between knowing & becoming
Even while flowing in the Divine stream with serenity
Patiently awaiting consciousness blossoming

The offered blessing as glimpse making clear our trajectory
To unify our consciousness with Oneness awareness in permanence
Hence recognising, recalling but distanced from memory drawn imagery
Viewing oscillation of our presence as playful whim of Divine dalliance

Yet having been and so seen the subtler
Divine entwined, love enabled, magnetism within in alignment
How may we not be discontent when immersed in domains grosser
Our seeking being unseeking we desire permanent enablement

As an identityless presence
One with Oneness
In permanence

***
Thank you and I love you also.

Even though few of us have experienced this melting into unity or "wholeness" (I have also been so blessed) it doesn't seem conducive (to me at least) to execute basic biological functions whilst remaining in this state, because awareness is being constantly bombarded for attention by the mind and body's instincts and requirements for basic survival...maybe there is some kind of skill involved to always notice that Brahman is the carrot cake..and Brahman is the carrot-cake eater...and at some level, we can still know this, we are fully aware of it...but when one is hungry, the attention focuses as to how a nice piece of carrot cake is going to temporarily satiate the hunger...yeah "eat now, Brahman bliss later...oh wait...there is no "now" and no "later" and no "you" and no "carrot cake" and not even "Brahman"...and then, one still just says "shut the hell up thinking mind and just talk to my stomach about all that".

In this way, even one who has experienced Oneness, or Nirvikalpa Samadhi can get plonked back into 3D immersion, due to Vasanas..due to all of the mental modifications of mind which are negated/mitigated through the practice of Yoga Chitta Vritti Nirodha and particularly, through the pratyahara (sensory withdrawal) stage of Patanjali's eightfold system...or something like that.
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Old 20-06-2019, 04:02 PM
ImthatIm ImthatIm is offline
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The sense I get of all this merging Oneness in my Being and expressing it through my human.

At present it seems the Heart center is where "I" need to operate from
expressing the Love energies.

So I say: "Love is my compass."
Of course Divine Innocent Love energy with childlike qualities
being the preferred state perfected.

Anything else seems beyond me at this point it time.
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Old 20-06-2019, 08:57 PM
iamthat iamthat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unseeking Seeker
***For those who have been so blessed to experience Oneness in deep meditation ... the question is that having merged our in-form consciousness with Oneness awareness in the boundless sea of bliss and absoluteness, why are we dissolved and yet distinct?

Connectedness is good but it is still separateness. A connected to B but not B. A is separate and B is separate.

The understanding by experiencing Oneness imparts the definitive wisdom of all being One no doubt but the state of so being restricted to the duration of the deep trance meditation when we are dissolved in the flow but even there as Oneness but not The Oneness in permanence.

So we emerge from the unified field back to the dualistic field wiser but not enabled.

I’ll be happy to get views from all who have so experienced Oneness and then plonked back into duality. How do we handle this oscillation? ***

This supposes that the merging into Oneness is restricted to the duration of the meditation. In which case I suggest that this is not true merging into Oneness.

When we truly dissolve the identification with separation and enter the state of Oneness (which is our own natural state) then this state remains, whether we are sitting in meditation or living everyday life.

Yes, consciousness continues to function through individual mind/emotions/physical body which is distinct from other mind-bodies but Oneness is ever-present, pervading everything. It never goes away. The body is just a vehicle moving within an infinite ocean of Oneness.

Peace.
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Old 20-06-2019, 09:52 PM
TerramineLightvoid TerramineLightvoid is offline
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There is 2 sides to merging with Cosmic Consciousness, based on the 2 halves of Zen. Zanshin and Mushin. Depending on which one is predominant. OP is describing Mushin dominant Oneness. It is where Ego Death becomes fore front and you lose yourself passively in the all consuming higher force that you are connected with.

But Meditation is not, contrary to popular belief, exclusively a Passive endeavor. Mushin Meditation is the common perception of meditation, to just sit still and clear one's mind. But Zanshin Meditation is actually most sought after in the East, as it is Active Meditation is how one achieves Meditation even while moving or enacting some form of action.

It's also the way to bring Oneness into being centered on your own independent Ego. You connect with God or whatever higher force, to hand over control as you enact your mission. Losing dependence on conscious thought, allowing all action to become automatic and without hesitation.
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Old 20-06-2019, 10:12 PM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is offline
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Originally Posted by TerramineLightvoid
There is 2 sides to merging with Cosmic Consciousness, based on the 2 halves of Zen. Zanshin and Mushin. Depending on which one is predominant. OP is describing Mushin dominant Oneness. It is where Ego Death becomes fore front and you lose yourself passively in the all consuming higher force that you are connected with.

But Meditation is not, contrary to popular belief, exclusively a Passive endeavor. Mushin Meditation is the common perception of meditation, to just sit still and clear one's mind. But Zanshin Meditation is actually most sought after in the East, as it is Active Meditation is how one achieves Meditation even while moving or enacting some form of action.

It's also the way to bring Oneness into being centered on your own independent Ego. You connect with God or whatever higher force, to hand over control as you enact your mission. Losing dependence on conscious thought, allowing all action to become automatic and without hesitation.
This is indeed correct.

In the Hindu tradition, it is also the same thing.

There are three types of Samadhi or "merging with Oneness" which is based upon the interaction or participation of Ego within the conceptual realisation.

There is Savikalpa Samadhi, which is concept dependent, like the trance states or rapture one experiences with Deity worship, there is Nirvikalpa Samadhi, which transcends limited concepts into a merging independent of any "subject" or "object" which is also akin to the Ego Death, and there is Sahaja Samadhi, in which the Nirvikalpa state can be realised even in active consciousness, without the requirement for any formal meditative practice...thus, it becomes effortless (Sahaja)...the Buddhist tradition calls this Wu Wei Wu (doing not doing).

In the first two cases of Samadhi, the Ego can still be present or assert itself from time to time, so even though the Ego may be "dead", it can still return occasionally as a ghost to haunt one...in the case of Sahaja Samadhi, all that is dispensed with.

After one attains Nirvikalpa Samadhi, they realise that even this is not the end of the road and modifications still need to be made to the practice, to secure oneself in that state under any and all duress....this is also where myself, and many others are up to in their Spiritual journey.
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Old 21-06-2019, 02:42 AM
TerramineLightvoid TerramineLightvoid is offline
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Originally Posted by Shivani Devi
This is indeed correct.

In the Hindu tradition, it is also the same thing.

There are three types of Samadhi or "merging with Oneness" which is based upon the interaction or participation of Ego within the conceptual realisation.

There is Savikalpa Samadhi, which is concept dependent, like the trance states or rapture one experiences with Deity worship, there is Nirvikalpa Samadhi, which transcends limited concepts into a merging independent of any "subject" or "object" which is also akin to the Ego Death, and there is Sahaja Samadhi, in which the Nirvikalpa state can be realised even in active consciousness, without the requirement for any formal meditative practice...thus, it becomes effortless (Sahaja)...the Buddhist tradition calls this Wu Wei Wu (doing not doing).

In the first two cases of Samadhi, the Ego can still be present or assert itself from time to time, so even though the Ego may be "dead", it can still return occasionally as a ghost to haunt one...in the case of Sahaja Samadhi, all that is dispensed with.

After one attains Nirvikalpa Samadhi, they realise that even this is not the end of the road and modifications still need to be made to the practice, to secure oneself in that state under any and all duress....this is also where myself, and many others are up to in their Spiritual journey.
I mean I don't think either path is invalid. I think everyone is meant to be either more inclined to the Passive path, or more inclined towards the Active path. I am naturally geared towards the Active. I aim to become so one with Zen that I am unbeatable in all that I do.

Doubtful but... gotta dream big lol
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Old 21-06-2019, 02:48 AM
Unseeking Seeker Unseeking Seeker is offline
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***

As an analogy we may look at it as sugar dissolving homogeneously in a container of water, becoming one with it in totality and then through distillation being restored to original form.

The knowing by experiencing then as such is not the becoming in permanence.

What may such a sugar crystal tell another?

***
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