The Problem of Human Suffering.

[NightSpirit]

[quote]

Originally Posted by Xan

But suffering, which is caused by the forgetting of who we really are, is not the way Life Itself is. This is what we gradually come into remembering... knowing... being.

Do you believe all suffering springs from this Xan? ACIM suggests it does.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by NightSpirit

Yes, that happens a great deal more then it needs to Gem. It could be several reasons....because the person cannot find another way, or fears the 'what ifs' and think "better the devil they know then something they don't". etc.

I always figured the blocks are put in place like protection devises, so they serve to prevent people from like blowing their minds, and sometimes it's better in than out, for survival's sake... so... yeah.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Xan

NightSpirit: The biggest thought behind this for me is..."What if we only knew non suffering?" Can that be? I'm talking about here...on earth. How could we establish emotional charges without experiencing them all? If we know we are suffering , then we can work towards eliminating it or returning to a state of peace.

Yes... I have remembered preparing for this lifetime and choosing a particular type of suffering to dive into. Not only to experience it, but to be a team member with those above who are developing a technology of healing and transformation to end suffering in the return to awareness in our true nature. I know others who have done the same.

Suffering is so widespread in our world that we may take it to be "the way life is". But suffering, which is caused by the forgetting of who we really are, is not the way Life Itself is. This is what we gradually come into remembering... knowing... being.


Xan

I think if we see that there is a lot of suffering in the world then we have to accept 'that's the way life is'. It's just an observation. By the same respect any person can see that they are miserable and simply observe like 'I'm miserable'. These aren't 'negative affirmations', it's just acknowledgement of the truth... it's like if you want the weeds out get them by the roots underground. Cutting them at the surface leaves the roots there still growing.

[BlueSky]

Originally Posted by Xan

Yes... There's often a feeling of helpless about the suffering of others because it seems we can only take care of our own life and consciousness.

Yet... as for the OP question, 'How can we fix suffering?' ... It might seem too simplistic but there really is power in choosing love... to heal and uplift ourselves and each other. It can work on the collective as well as personal.

Here's a way: Your Transforming Heart - http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=3684


Xan

Hi Xan,
I'm responding to what you said here because it was in response to something general that I posted.
My comment is that I don't see things this way at all as you explained above. It's really not important to explain why. I was merely stating how I felt in my post. I wasn't suggesting I had a problem with it or that I was looking for a way to get around the feelings I have but thank you anyway............Blessings, James

[Gem]

Originally Posted by WhiteShaman

Hi Xan,
I'm responding to what you said here because it was in response to something general that I posted.
My comment is that I don't see things this way at all as you explained above. It's really not important to explain why. I was merely stating how I felt in my post. I wasn't suggesting I had a problem with it or that I was looking for a way to get around the feelings I have but thank you anyway............Blessings, James

I'm just dealing with the nature of the beast, so restrict myself to examining the problem itself, and leave any solution that might be applicable aside, for it is my conviction that to understand something primal as to the real guts of the issue is instrumental, and without that, any healing methodology will be superficial, like taking asprin for a headache where the actual cause is maleria.

[sound]

Originally Posted by NightSpirit

That's thought-provoking sound. To figure it out, I had to think as a child would, because they have nowhere to start except the act of doing. Bear with me while I mull it over here lol...

Unless one can remember each day of their childhood, then its difficult to pin-point. Children learn emotions along the way, and as babies, are very in-tune with their mothers emotions. Although a baby cannot analyse what they are feeling, they cry when hungry or uncomfortable....smile spontaneously....squeal in pain. As the brain matures and a child grows they learn to discern and name emotional responses.

To answer your question, I'd have to say "neither/or"....suffering and non suffering go hand-in-hand from the moment we are born. The biggest thought behind this for me is..."What if we only knew non suffering?" Can that be? I'm talking about here...on earth. How could we establish emotional charges without experiencing them all? If we know we are suffering , then we can work towards eliminating it or returning to a state of peace.

Thanks in return for your thought provoking post NS ...

It got me to thinking also about whether or not infants actually discriminate between the different emotions, or simply relate the emotion to the need without attaching any belief to why it is occurring. Naturally, as children develop, and interact with their world they make those associations and learn about decision and consequence, and in some instances, learn about suffering by their own hand unfortunately. It seems like i am entering different territory there but it is still relevant to what we are talking about in one sense, and there is a connection for me. And, as we develop, due to conditioning, i guess we decide (to believe) whether we are prone/destined/deserve to 'suffer' or not. This leads to thoughts of those who may experience what most would consider severe suffering, often for their entire life, such as extreme hunger and its associated pain ... is there an element of joy for those people which balances the scales? I am thinking aloud yeah, and in no way expect you, or anyone else to provide 'the' answer

[BlueSky]

Originally Posted by Gem

I'm just dealing with the nature of the beast, so restrict myself to examining the problem itself, and leave any solution that might be applicable aside, for it is my conviction that to understand something primal as to the real guts of the issue is instrumental, and without that, any healing methodology will be superficial, like taking asprin for a headache where the actual cause is maleria.

I have my thoughts as to the nature of the beast as well and one of them is that they are only thoughts…lol
Some of those thoughts are, for example, I have learned from suffering but that doesn’t mean that it happened for me TO learn or that we are here TO learn. It could, I doubt it, but it also could be that by nature we look for and find the best in a given situation.
Sometimes we don’t learn because there is nothing to learn.... as in the death of a loved one.
We suffer and rightfully so………..period.
Another example is like I stated above that it bothers me more to see others suffer. That doesn’t mean it is a problem or that we can’t help each other. It could I suppose or it could just be by nature a catalyst for me to help because help IS needed.
For example, I see and feel real suffering in the birds in the winter and I sense it is because we have taken over their sources of natural food with our lawns and roads.
This compassion moves me to help and I do just that. I don’t sit back and say I can only take care of my own life. They are my life. I suffer with them and again IMO rightfully so.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by WhiteShaman

I have my thoughts as to the nature of the beast as well and one of them is that they are only thoughts…lol
Some of those thoughts are, for example, I have learned from suffering but that doesn’t mean that it happened for me TO learn or that we are here TO learn. It could, I doubt it, but it also could be that by nature we look for and find the best in a given situation.
Sometimes we don’t learn because there is nothing to learn.... as in the death of a loved one.
We suffer and rightfully so………..period.
Another example is like I stated above that it bothers me more to see others suffer. That doesn’t mean it is a problem or that we can’t help each other. It could I suppose or it could just be by nature a catalyst for me to help because help IS needed.
For example, I see and feel real suffering in the birds in the winter and I sense it is because we have taken over their sources of natural food with our lawns and roads.
This compassion moves me to help and I do just that. I don’t sit back and say I can only take care of my own life. They are my life. I suffer with them and again IMO rightfully so.

I can recall as a young teen... there's kind of a sport which involves killing cane toads up north, but they are a really bad pest, wiping out the native frogs so no one really cares. If we can wipe them all out even better, so as younguns we'd get pretty creative about it, and I must say I never really gave a damn, and today would be glad to see the end of them entirely, but if i see a burned little joey hobbling about after a bushfire I react as though I'm covered in burns and feel so sorry for the little critter... so it seems I'm completely callus on one hand and a great big softy on the other.

I have an Idea that will spread Collective Consciousness. I know where it starts. I know eventually it will be a worldwide consciousness. My best friend is a Mason or Free Mason, and knows big people. Big Businesses and People that are in the White House. I have connections. Leave this up to me. I will say no more because this is a public post where everyone can see it. So what I just said could be all false or not. Only Us will know the truth, or not, is, or is 'is not'. ( )

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by Gem

I can recall as a young teen... there's kind of a sport which involves killing cane toads up north, but they are a really bad pest, wiping out the native frogs so no one really cares. If we can wipe them all out even better, so as younguns we'd get pretty creative about it, and I must say I never really gave a damn, and today would be glad to see the end of them entirely, but if i see a burned little joey hobbling about after a bushfire I react as though I'm covered in burns and feel so sorry for the little critter... so it seems I'm completely callus on one hand and a great big softy on the other.

I'd say you a truly a big softy, read sensitive human being, but were conditioned by your peers or society to become hardened in your heart towards this particular pest.
I went to college and read between the lines...