Why don't bad people ascend?

[Nature Grows]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

However, and for all intents and purposes relevant to this conversation, 'bad people' can ascend! Hitler was one.

ps: the god of the bible, the one that did those things in the first part of the book.. was just a manipulative being, what Christians would call a false god.. maybe it was one of the fallen anunnaki, i think but ya'll free to think what you want though.

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by Nature Grows

ps: the god of the bible, the one that did those things in the first part of the book.. was just a manipulative being, what Christians would call a false god.. maybe it was one of the fallen annuanki, i think but ya'll free to think what you want though.

That picture is awesome in all its sarcastic glory...you made me smile a beaming smile...good on you.

Yes, it may have been Enki or Mardoc which did all that, however, God's other solutions...lemme see "create a plague during the middle-ages and kill millions"..."let 'evil mankind' remain unchecked to make wars on each other and kill millions"...oh wai, should evil people be killed to stop them from killing others? One would hope for a massive raise in the overall level of consciousness on this planet before God would attempt something like that again, or else nobody would be left...however, God reminds us now and then and creates stuff like AIDS and Hurricane Katrina...and stuffs that just kill us all off in small increments...so Earth's population doesn't blow out entirely...can't really say He discriminates between 'good people' and 'evil people' much....but that's something only God would know.

[Nature Grows]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

That picture is awesome in all its sarcastic glory...you made me smile a beaming smile...good on you.

lol..

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

Yes, it may have been Enki or Mardoc which did all that, however, God's other solutions...lemme see "create a plague during the middle-ages and kill millions"..."let 'evil mankind' remain unchecked to make wars on each other and kill millions"...oh wai, should evil people be killed to stop them from killing others? One would hope for a massive raise in the overall level of consciousness on this planet before God would attempt something like that again, or else nobody would be left...however, God reminds us now and then and creates stuff like AIDS and Hurricane Katrina...and stuffs that just kill us all off in small increments...so Earth's population doesn't blow out entirely...can't really say He discriminates between 'good people' and 'evil people' much....but that's something only God would know.

Yea true..

Originally Posted by iamthat

So to get back to your original question, someone who is truly "bad" and who habitually mistreats others can be assumed to have a fairly low vibration. If the universe suddenly makes that person ascend then they have bypassed all the learning experience. This does not make sense.

I was actually enjoying your post until it came to this part, this is where many Spiritual people fall down. It's judgement.

What makes bad people bad? Even so-called 'bad people' have Souls inside them and everything else 'Spiritual people' have - inherently they're no different. If you believe in Karmic Obligations/Life's Purpose then who's to say there aren't agreements between 'bad people' and 'Spiritual people'? As far as I can see, the only real difference between a 'bad person' and a 'Spiritual person' is the Path they have chosen.

'Ascending' - whatever that may mean - is a bit of a way off if we can't get past 'bad'. We are here to learns the lessons yet the people we can learn the most from are low vibration. Makes so much sense, doesn't it?

So, if we all have a Soul inside us and we are everything Spirituality projects - Beings of Light yadda yadda - then what is the experience of a Soul who has chosen the Path of a 'bad guy'?

Originally Posted by iamthat

In the end we realise that nothing bad ever happened and there is nothing to forgive. Perhaps the highest vibration for a human being is that of true forgiveness and compassion.

If there are no 'bad guys' then that forgiveness and compassion can't happen and the 'good guys' aren't so high vibration after all.

Originally Posted by traceyacey12

thanks. I agree with this definition. why does finding out who you really are cause ascension symptoms?

Spirituality tends to borrow words and redefine them without understanding them in their original context - like vibration and energy. Energy doesn't change vibrations gradually, it takes whata's called 'quantum leaps' from one energy level to the next, and it's not linear so it might mean leaping a few levels. So, one day you're walking around with the vibrations of a block of ice, 'ascension' hits and you're floating around with the vibrations of a cloud of steam.

[Shivani Devi]

Reading the past few posts has caused me to put on my 'Hindu hat'.

It all boils down to what we call Samskaras:

https://www.yogapedia.com/definition/5748/samskara

Due to past experiences and conditioning, we create our own thoughts and belief systems according to the way our reactions influenced them at the time, either in a constructive or destructive way, and these are stored as latent impressions (called Vrittis) in our subconscious mind...and so, it becomes possible for a 'bad person' to not actually realise they are 'bad'.

Through the process of enlightenment (ascension), these samskaras are worked through and we realise the limitations our own beliefs and concepts place upon our spiritual unfolding and development - thus we are not a 'bad person' who becomes a 'good person' or vice versa, the attempt is made to lose all construct of habitual behaviour and conditioned 'knee-jerk' reaction to attain a state of 'non-doing' or spontaneity arising from the core of inner stillness.

Often, after self-realisation, residual samskaras still take place for some time (according to karma) until they 'burn themselves out' - like how the blades of a fan will keep rotating for some time after the power supply is disconnected, but eventually, all of the 'bad habits' will cease, when the spiritual aspirant realises they are not really useful, and so, in a way...after ascension, 'bad people' can become 'good people' to put it very simply.

However, if those 'bad people' are still stuck and let themselves become ruled by their samskaras and ahamkara (ego), they can slide back down and basically 'un-ascend' and then go through the trials of hell after realising what 'can be' if they just let it all go...and yet, they don't want to.

Originally Posted by Ghost_Rider_1970

I think the key question is what is meant by ‘Ascension’. To me this is knowing who we are at the spiritual and universal level. In essence, our ‘Awakening ‘ to who we are. So, in my view, ‘Ascension’ generally eludes ‘bad people’ (and those who are good but are happy living in blissful ignorance with this being their Free Will). So the ones who cause conflict are typically those that feel they they are isolated individuals or alien to this world rather than feeing they are the patten of life itself. In effect those who are typically lost from their true self and governed by ego. Consequently being any other way may never even cross their mind unless something happens that enables them to consider the very nature of who they are.

No offence to you personally Ghost, but this is where Spirituality falls down in its understanding, quite frankly.

We are multi-dimensional beings, or at least that's how one of the many stories of that ilk goes, yet we'd run away from those 'low vibrations' of being human and forget one level of our existence in the rush to label ourselves as Spiritual. Which is the very human thing to do. 'Bad people' are pigeon-holed but nobody shakes their hand and says "Thank you for the lesson, without you my Spiritual development would be stunted." Heck, it's possible that you're Spiritual because of those 'bad people' but that's by-the-by and nobody thinks about that.

What is meant by Universal experience? Is any Path any better than any other and didn't we - as Souls/Spirit - choose it just the same? If we're questioning whether or not 'bad guys' ascend and we're coming up with these answers, what does that say about us?

[Inika]

everyone gets a chance. everyone. no discrimination. Leave that up to the human consciousness to decide in discrimination due to outer appearance. And that is not classed as 'bad' yet is an everyday happening. even here.

[lemex]

Originally Posted by Inika

everyone gets a chance. everyone. no discrimination. Leave that up to the human consciousness to decide in discrimination due to outer appearance. And that is not classed as 'bad' yet is an everyday happening. even here.

One chance or several?

[Inika]

Originally Posted by lemex

One chance or several?

You tell me. I dont make rules for the human soul