Down the objective rabbit hole

[movingalways]

"I think I'll go and meet her," said Alice..."You can't possibly do that", said the Rose. "I should advise you to walk the other way." This sounded nonsense to Alice, so she said nothing, but set off at once towards the Red Queen. To her surprise, she lost sight of her in a moment. - Through The Looking Glass by Lewis Carrol

A scientist looks through an electron microscope to see an object as tiny as 0.1 mm, beyond that, his or her perceiving vision cannot go. Why this is important to realize is when, by the guidance of our intuition we go down the rabbit hole beyond the visible realm, what we find is the formless Subject gazing upon the formless Subject. In discovering the truth that form cannot be penetrated by the human senses or by human reasoning, we can begin to put the false notion of a dual reality to rest and come to stand straight and pure as We Are - the Absolute Self.

He who penetrates into himself, and so transcends himself, ascends truly to God. - Albertus Magnus

[Ewwerrin]

I agree, this has to be nonduality. And SINCE it is nonduality. Why is there so much recurring and chronic suffering here then for me?

Why can't this absolute reality be pure permanent bliss, with no beginning and no ending? Something is off. I am missing something?

What is the reason that there is no bliss perceivable here. When THIS IS nonduality. the absolute reality.

There has to be infinite bliss here, right now. Doesn't there?

What is the point of an absolute reality of infinite perfection, and then there being so much suffering in it? How is that perfect? Nothing makes any sense to me anymore.

Absolute reality has to be infinite perfection and bliss. Or am I missing something?

I know I have experienced something other than my current suffering. So how can absolute reality be relative and relative reality be absolute? That makes no sense. Something is wrong here.

[Maisy]

Originally Posted by movingalways

He who penetrates into himself, and so transcends himself, ascends truly to God. - Albertus Magnus

I think we are perceiving a human created reality and experience. But we can sometimes get a glimpse through this veil.

[Ewwerrin]

Yeah I pierced the veil totally by accident one time.
During a difficult time in my life, I attempted to become aware of my awareness with all the might and effort I had left. And bliss poured out when I pierced the veil. I coulden't maintain it, so it was short lasted. The energy is too immense and so invulnerable and so unfamiliar.

I know it exists, but am always wondering why we are not experiencing it all the time. Why it has to be difficult. Requires such immensity of a powerful of a mighty focus to pierce the veil and let bliss pour out. I succeeded just few seconds in my life.

I usually give up, but every now and then I just can't take suffering anymore and I try to focus again for the purpose of piercing the veil. I'm not even sure my life would be better with or without the veil. I have too little experience. But I know that I can crash and burn really hard if I insist on something I am not ready for. Wish bliss was easier for me to achieve and maintain.

[FallingLeaves]

Originally Posted by Ewwerrin

I know it exists, but am always wondering why we are not experiencing it all the time. Why it has to be difficult. Requires such immensity of a powerful of a mighty focus to pierce the veil and let bliss pour out. I succeeded just few seconds in my life.

it is a matter of 'life' vs 'death'. If we got what we wanted, e.g. permanent bliss, what exactly do you see us doing next? If you could answer that question honestly, you would know the purpose of suffering.

People don't wish to answer that question, honestly, though. Much 'easier' to belief in all sorts of phantasmagorical things than look that deeply at what is going on within oneself.

[Ewwerrin]

Originally Posted by FallingLeaves

it is a...
... going on within oneself.

So are you saying that we suffer in life, to prevent a suffering that is even greater than it, and it is called death, even tho we are all garuanteed to die?

I can't exactly answer the question of what we would do in bliss, unless I am in bliss. I assume its a whole lot more and more significant aswell. From what little experience I have, 1 second of bliss is more powerful than thousands of years of human civilization. In terms of leverage in action. Due to energetic alignment.

Imagine creating nuclear fusion in one act of love. Allowing love for humans for thousands of years. Bliss is even greater than that. I don't know, I can't explain how powerful one act of bliss would be. It transcends all physical limitations. Maybe you mean that suffering can't survive in the presence of bliss? I don't see that as death tho. I'm not even sure death exists at all. No one who has ever died has told us that they are dead. Maybe the word death is meaningless. Or self contradictory.

Yet suffering is also self contradictory and yet here we are. Suffering exists, even tho in absolute reality it shoulden't be possible. Perfection manifesting itself as imperfection. Its a paradox for me. Everything is absolutely perfect in this eternal here and now, and yet I have a thing called suffering. Makes no sense.

I also find that suffering actually reduces the ability to survive. I assume that those who suffer die allot more.

Maybe there is some kind of secret purpose for suffering. I dont know...

[movingalways]

Ewwerrin, you have built for yourself a story about what you believe is the goal of spirituality - 'bliss', so you suffer trying to make your story of bliss come true.

The Absolute Self has no story.

[Ewwerrin]

Originally Posted by movingalways

Ewwerrin, you...
...has no story.

Currently, I just have pain without a story. No cause. No cure. I am suffering it, because it leaves me no rest. There is no story behind it.

Would actually be nice if there was a story behind it. Some kind of purpose to the pain. Some origin some destination. But no, those aren't here for me. Just pain.

[movingalways]

Ewwerrin: Currently, I just have pain without a story.

You had an experience of bliss. And because you cannot replicate this experience, you are telling the story of "bliss being greater than creating nuclear fusion in one act of love allowing love for humans for thousands of years." Stories are imagined, stories are based on speculation, is this not what you are doing by imagining what permanent bliss would be like?

[FallingLeaves]

hi ewerrin so to give you a taste there is death of the body, and there is death of something deeper than the body... maisy is kinda telling you what she feels about that in another thread... all this 'ick' as we call this life with all the suffering and illness and other stuff that people as a rule deeply dislike, is the remnants of what had to happen to keep that something 'deeper' from itself 'dieing' a more permanent death than simply losing a body. Losing a body is simply like losing clothes...

Also i thought i'd tell you, while bliss seems a compelling antidote to pain, as it turns out that is not the only interesting thing running around in the emotional world...