Why/how do people accept duality?

[alanantic]

Originally Posted by Ewwerrin

Is there a way to transcend the eternal/ininite cycle of dreaming/awakening?

I don't think any of us would be here if there wasn't. :-P

"Give up all questions except one: ‘Who am I?’ After all, the only fact you
are sure of is that you are. The ‘I am’ is certain. The ‘I am this’ is not.
Struggle to find out what you are in reality." -- Nisargadatta

[Ewwerrin]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

Thank you for being so nice since I was pretty blunt.

I understand the goodness from where it comes.
When the whole universe is a lie, then meditation is the only thing that can make it believable again. It is the final mercy, the last one I have. And I dare not mess with it.

I am going to meditate.

[Ewwerrin]

Originally Posted by alanantic

I don't think any...
... in reality." -- Nisargadatta

I certainly hope so.

[Maisy]

For me, meditation is now an inner quietness and peace and non-attached acceptance in the present moment as we go through our normal daily activities. So for me it's never sitting still and being inward or trying to achieve something. It's more about "letting go or not focusing on mind or being inwardly still" all the time. Even when being very busy and active.

[Maisy]

Originally Posted by Ewwerrin

Is there a way to transcend the eternal/ininite cycle of dreaming/awakening?

For me, it's just brief moments of lucidity here and there. I think it not only takes time, it takes insights and a strong interest in it and perhaps some grace or divine destiny. Some writers have said it takes many lives or incarnations (1000's) to get there. It's kind of funny but we don't see many humans who have achieved such a thing, permanent transcendence, because if any person did achieve such a thing or was at that level of development they would not be incarnating on earth anymore I think. I think the ones who manage to achieve such a thing never come back here. Their vibrations would have become too different from the vibrations down in this physical plane.

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by Ewwerrin

How can I surrender identification with my awareness? It seems like my awareness keeps recreating itself. Even beyond time and space.

As always we can look to Ramana Maharshi.

So the problem is not awareness, but it is the thought of "I" which rises in awareness. Who is this "I" which wants to surrender identification with your awareness?

Try closing your eyes and finding the location of this "I". Is this "I" in your body? Is this "I" in your head? Where is the "I"?

And we might find that there is no specific location where the "I" is found. There is just awareness. And within awareness the thought of "I" arises. And from this initial thought of "I" come all other thoughts.

So the "I" does not exist except as a thought arising in awareness. And this awareness is the silent witness, the observer of all thoughts and actions. But awareness identifies with the thought of "I" arising within itself, and so we believe that there is an "I" which is seeking, an "I" which is asking all these questions, an "I" which must somehow attain realisation.

But all the while it is awareness seeking itself through identifying with something other than itself. And when we let go of the thought of "I" then there is just awareness, present here and now, gazing out of our eyes. And resting in awareness all our questions are answered.

So Ewwerrin will never find what Ewwerrin is seeking. But when Ewwerrin with all these questions is let go of then you might find that the answer has always been present.

Peace

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by iamthat

Try closing your eyes and finding the location of this "I". Is this "I" in your body? Is this "I" in your head? Where is the "I"?

Ok, that does it ! ---that was the kick in the spiritual butt I needed, my spiritual buddy.
I am going into that zone...where the mind is expanded to that I.... but in 4 hours. LOL ....In 4 hours I'm doing that.
But it will be IN my mind even as I'm busy with someone for awhile... where there is no concept of limitation.

[Unseeking Seeker]

Focusing on posts 1 and 10, my views are:

There are three coordinates which we may be at ~

1 Feeling of separateness (we are a separate entity)

2 Stirrings of interconnectedness (though we are separate, we recognise that the butterfly effect impacts all existence)

3 Recognition of oneness (God alone is, the all there is, appearing as the many or we may say, He is the creator and we are the created, there being no separation from source)

The fulcrum of awareness from where we operate at any given time, receives and transmits vibrations accordingly. So, if an event in life occurs, we may say ~

1 ‘I am happy’ or ‘I am suffering’ or ‘I am ignorant’ or whatever, being identified at that time with the welfare of mind-body and thereby assigning a verdict or consequence to the experience.

2 ‘I witness the emotion of joy or pain or doubt arising in the mind-body, which I ensoul but am not in truth’. Here, we somewhat negate the mind-body as both recognition and escapism because the thought that we are not this but something else is again an imagined concept in mind.

3 This is the same as S.No.2 above but with the definitive knowing by feeling, experiencing and mirrorlessly seeing by being present in and as a singularity and therefore negating nothing, accepting everything as an incessant flow of descent and ascent, concealing and revealing, separation and union, appearing in our consciousness for our delight, which we behold in astonishment and wonderment in an aspect of embrace & release, leaving no residue.

When the aspect of spontaneous celebration in an unending continuum appears as bliss, with each touch void-centric, we may say we are equally at ease be we momentarily in a dark tunnel or in the light, since our presence is awake in its own self-luminescence.

Edit: About, how may we become aware of non-duality wherefrom arises duality, I’d say it is known in silence. As identity slowly recedes and we are aware in animated attention, poised alertly but unexpectantly in our innate vibrancy in agendalessness, we are one with universal consciousness, so to speak. We can call this meditation but as a non-doing, by just being, as we are, relaxed.

[Ewwerrin]

Originally Posted by iamthat

As always we can look to Ramana ...
... Peace

So you're saying I cannot let go of my self, I need to already be the identityless awareness that is aware of myself and rest in it or remain there. Aware of the awareness, like that right? Is that a good practice/intention?

And how do I become aware of the awareness? It feels very evasive, everytime I try to become aware of my awareness, it turns into either a thought or vision or physical sensation very quickly. Then I try to remain as the awareness that is aware of the thought/vision/sensation, but the awareness turns again into another or new thought/vision/sensation. And then I keep trying to go back to the awareness and I realise this one that is trying to go back to the awareness and return to center is also observed and not me. And then I become aware of non-physical awareness. Endless thought vibrations and visions arise there, I am very vaguely aware of them untill a physical sensation overrides or overpowers it and I'm back in physical awareness. And I think, well, I am aware of this, but how do I become aware of my awareness? Without becoming aware of the thought/vision/sesnations that keep arising in my awareness.

Or should I just surrender to the fact that I am always already the awareness and I will always be aware of endless never ending streams of thoughts/visions/sensations and I will never be able to become aware of my awareness itself? Is it impossible like that?

If that is the case, then it's not a practice? I can't do anything about my awareness and all the identities that arises from it? Or is it possible to practice surrendering. I'm not sure what I'm suppose to do or not do. Surrendering doesn't seem to change the everchange either. The endless arisings and identifications. Everytime I let go, a new identity arises. Like a never ending stream of self expansions.

I am already aware of this, but how do I remain aware of the awareness and remain just as the awareness.

I know that even trying this, is not me. It's just another identity that arises. But my awareness cannot seem to stop it or change it. I want to find a way to be happy with just the awareness, regardless of what arises in it. Should I continue disidentifying with all things that arise in my awareness with greater and more consistent deliberation and effort and intention, will that lead to succesful establishment of resting purely as the awareness?

And if so, how long should one deliberately focus the awareness unto the awareness or attempt to keep doing this before one can expect results? Hours, days, months? Or is it possible that one can expect results within minutes?
Incase this is a valid practice at all even.

I remember the first time I practiced becoming aware of my awareness, I had emmediate result and felt unconditional peace and well-being, felt invulnerable and such a huge relief. I felt totally at one with the awareness, it felt like an eternal refuge that is forever peaceful. But after I lost that, I cannot seem to reproduce it again. It feels very difficult now to become aware of the awareness. Or remain as only the awareness.

Thanks, peace.

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by Ewwerrin

...how do I remain aware of the awareness and remain just as the awareness. ... I remember the first time I practiced becoming aware of my awareness, I had emmediate result and felt unconditional peace and well-being, felt invulnerable and such a huge relief. I felt totally at one with the awareness, it felt like an eternal refuge that is forever peaceful. But after I lost that, I cannot seem to reproduce it again. It feels very difficult now to become aware of the awareness. Or remain as only the awareness.

You seem to have a very active and questioning mind which wants to understand everything. And the mind struggles to understand awareness because we experience the mind as a succession of thoughts arising in awareness.

When we rest in awareness then there is the unconditional peace and well-being which you mention. It is our eternal refuge and it is ever present, it is our own nature. All we can do is be this.

But then the mind wants to analyse it. So one moment we are resting in and identifying with awareness and the next moment we have stepped away from that because we want to observe awareness and try to understand awareness. And as soon as we step away from awareness we have lost that which we are trying to observe. Awareness is obviously still present but we are now examining it from a point of separation.

And you ask:

And if so, how long should one deliberately focus the awareness unto the awareness or attempt to keep doing this before one can expect results? Hours, days, months? Or is it possible that one can expect results within minutes? In case this is a valid practice at all even.

Maybe stop thinking in terms of time periods and results. Simply be what you already are in this moment. Without the need to understand it. You may find this difficult because the nature of your mind seems to demand that you understand it, but this need to understand has become an obstacle for you.

Is this a valid practice? As you said, you "felt unconditional peace and well-being, felt invulnerable and such a huge relief. I felt totally at one with the awareness, it felt like an eternal refuge that is forever peaceful." This speaks for itself.

Peace