What are the benefits to the soul for suffering in life?

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by Rah nam

Since suffering happens in the mind, one could say, a first step would be, overcoming suffering.

Once we come to the realization what suffering is, and we can move out of this state at any time, it has a sling shot effect on our development.

Yes. Making a choice to overcome the suffering...like waking up for the first time...seeing we have the power to change things...to move out of that state...that we are not helpless.

As far as the child in a starving country ...their mind, heart and soul can decide, "Never again, whatever I am supposed to learn ...it will never be THIS way again!" So the next life can then be different.

[running]

Originally Posted by Burntfruit

We all suffer in life to a degree.

Some more than others, but from what I have read, Earth is a tough school.

If you suffer more than most due to illness or poverty etc, what is the benefit to the soul?

What happens to the soul due to the learning experience on Earth?

two things

1. to enjoy the good times more fully

2. to create a desire to find an antidote. kundalini

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Hamerof and Penrose have some pretty cool material that might be worth checking out. Hamerof is an anaesthesiologist and Penrose is a Nobel Prize-winner, and what they have discovered is quantum-capable microtubules in the brain that are 'shielded' from the electrical activities. If you're looking for a scientific answer to Gnosticism, this is the closest I've come across - Gnosis and quantum entanglement? Entanglement with the field of probability also explains reality. And perhaps God.

Interesting. My late reply is because I've been rummaging. There appears only one book on their combined work: Consciousness and the Universe - as usual expensive but I notice the latest version was published in 2017 so won't be too far our of date.

I'm a little off-put by the mention of "quantum" which usually comes with heavy maths if rigorous. The topic is within a recent interest of mine - probably a combo of this forum! and a former interest in neuroscience, coming from an early interest in communication/semiotics etc. I seem to have hardened to the airy-fairy stuff; have accepted the idea of the "social brain". In time the research may answer more questions - whether it'll answer them all, I don't know. Besides, it may sometimes be easier to go along with the airy-fairy - it offers models of various kinds (and can rest on knowing there's some kind of physical basis, if physical is the right word these days. Like one doesn't have to understand the workings of a television to use one. It's enough to assume it does work).

Anyway I'll order it - won't hurt to give it a go.

Thank you for pointing it out to me.

Originally Posted by Lorelyen

Interesting. My late reply is because I've been rummaging. There appears only one book on their combined work: Consciousness and the Universe - as usual expensive but I notice the latest version was published in 2017 so won't be too far our of date.

I'm a little off-put by the mention of "quantum" which usually comes with heavy maths if rigorous. The topic is within a recent interest of mine - probably a combo of this forum! and a former interest in neuroscience, coming from an early interest in communication/semiotics etc. I seem to have hardened to the airy-fairy stuff; have accepted the idea of the "social brain". In time the research may answer more questions - whether it'll answer them all, I don't know. Besides, it may sometimes be easier to go along with the airy-fairy - it offers models of various kinds (and can rest on knowing there's some kind of physical basis, if physical is the right word these days. Like one doesn't have to understand the workings of a television to use one. It's enough to assume it does work).

Anyway I'll order it - won't hurt to give it a go.

Thank you for pointing it out to me.

I'm lazy because I only hold enough information to get me by, the other reason is that my head leaks and much of the information is lost anyway.

I can read up on neuroscience and all the rest of it but it doesn't help me deal with a mother who has dementia Scientifically there the best I can hope for is to read a list of possible symptoms and see which ones present themselves, but that's not much use for the emotions and the frustrations. Numbers leave me cold but the idea of quantum theory is fascinating in what possibilities are open and the explanation of some aspects of Spirituality - like the creation of reality being akin to the double-slit experiment.

I wonder how many Spiritual people understand how their own heads work even at a basic level yet they proclaim their own highly conscious self-awareness anyway.

Anyway, hope you find it interesting and let me know if you find any revelations. And you're very welcome.

[lemex]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

Yes. Making a choice to overcome the suffering...like waking up for the first time...seeing we have the power to change things...to move out of that state...that we are not helpless.

As far as the child in a starving country ...their mind, heart and soul can decide, "Never again, whatever I am supposed to learn ...it will never be THIS way again!" So the next life can then be different.

Feel both pain and hope in your words. Quite a mix. I guess clarification because it is about the extension of suffering. I'd also as I say this to me I would say this to others. As it will not be this way for me it should also never be the way for others. I mean as I learned I can teach. What does one do in the next life?

[naturesflow]

Originally Posted by lemex

Not at all, any input is welcome. This of course will include what one see's soul as. Wanted to say of the 2 scenarios brought up, I agree but I was talking about a 3rd. These 2 are important. However what if I (knowing) with knowledge harm, meaning I have an agenda. My focus was about suffering one's doesn't or shouldn't have to guess about as an observer, but confirmed by the person making it known is suffering though we are both talking about learning and doing. Stuff which goes on in the world a lot.

Well I having nothing set in stone in relation to much of what is moving as life and myself moving as life, so its all good enquiry and exploration and often leads me back to the simplicity of my existence, where everything falls away back to living and life itself. For me the soul is the same. Like all things explored through our own separateness or seeking to know ourselves and what life means deeper, we break things down, but then we usually end up putting things back together again. When you feel complete, soul, source, mind body spirit, whatever you perceive yourself as, your just moving more aware of the whole connections, but aware of yourself alive and living life. I still like looking at all this with curious eyes. In your however point, a few things would come into that view your offering. What kind of harm are you speaking about? Do you mean physical harm or choice for oneself where it hurts another? Just remember that suffering is perceived through the one suffering. When people take full responsibility for all they go through, they often let go of suffering as being about the other and more about what their part in it means. Someone holding onto the other as their source of suffering will continue to suffer. You would have to be more specific I think before it could be explored further.

[naturesflow]

One of the benefits of suffering is understanding. My personal suffering has long ago been put away and I guess I simply know about it knowing I did not like it, so in a way it is not subjective but objective. I don't think I can ever put that away and in fact can be useful knowing about it. This is what I wonder, my perception of soul is it has (soul) knowledge. When talking about soul it is spiritual. Is this what we think, soul has knowledge. It is this knowledge that is superior to ours. We say we are here to learn because we are always learning. So are we here to learn to be more like the soul or the soul to learn to be more like the body?

Learning is ongoing, deepening and understanding is ongoing, so the soul could be more related to the awareness of more than what we know at any given moment. A point within our own creation and mind that decides it is linked to something that speaks of a higher awareness, yet it is yourself aware of yourself aware in this way. It becomes a hard concept for anyone to understand this until they understand the point of emptiness within themselves. Without calling it truth as such, it could just be the clarity of understanding the deeper nature of what is. As I mentioned, when all things fall away, there is just awareness and clarity of being, whether through a process of suffering or life experience. That clarity is simply aware, the soul aspect maybe more like an invisible carriage that comes to life through that awareness. Something we create as a source of ourselves 'aware' of ourselves 'aware'. Yet when we drop the lines that we believe create us into being, it becomes quite simple. The mind likes to have connections to make things fit, so that carriage is really something in you that is "aware". An empty mind has nothing to attach too, It just knows, it's aware. The rest falls away. Aware of yourself aware.

Do we feel the souls perspective is not, wouldn't be that of the body, that (the) soul would not act like we do if we knew something what the soul knows. Is this the feeling generally thought, the soul is more like the H.S., something I've felt. The H.S. of the soul would be it's L.S., so in respect to even our H.S., I mean meaningless to the L.S. or that self we have not yet reached. The H.S. of the soul is more in the realm of godlike stuff (connection). The soul is an existent state.

We are everything we create ourselves to be, becoming aware of yourself through the whole stream of these kind of creations, simply allows you to see your own potential as a human being. In my view of being aware of my own emptiness, things often fall away rather fast and I am simply more developing balance and equanimity of mind to let all these points of separation go. It all fits for you where you create it to fit. But there is always more and less to find within the whole spectrum of consciousness that we are creating to be what we need and see we need make be. The more and less observation is the balance of walking the middle path "aware". We exist, which would mean we are soul, we are existence, yes?

Here's the dilemma, soul and learning. We say here we learn by duality but the soul does not understand duality obviously if it must learn. So who is to learn? I'm not sure reverse learning isn't happening and that to me is a benefit if that is happening. What the soul seems to lack is experience, not knowledge.

Again humans because they feel disconnected to their own wholeness will create the world through that separation, so even duality comes through those creations. The awareness you are complete will lead you to find what you need to learn through all of you. The leading process comes through the balance of what you are "aware" of in yourself. So once "open" and aware of yourself complete, learning transforms into just being. If you are soul and existence, then experience would be about the manifestation of yourself aware into life as that experience.

So is the soul perfect? We say duality teaches even though there is knowledge. Experience clarifies knowledge in the physical plane I think and may at the soul level as well. The same information at the spiritual level is at the physical level. Does it make us a better soul, a better person. The benefit is of course learning. We do not like the idea the soul is learning when it is suppose to be perfect. I think the binary soul concept may be in play.

We are multi dimensional beings and we can delve as deep as we want and explore the totality of life as life is and can be. We are an all encompassing being, really developing through a multi level experience if open and aware to do so. You can find what you need in anything of this world, if your open and aware to feel it, see it and understand it as yourself.

[Rah nam]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

As far as the child in a starving country ...their mind, heart and soul can decide, "Never again, whatever I am supposed to learn ...it will never be THIS way again!" So the next life can then be different.

I see it more as the changed behavior in the collective, not to create situations were people, including children are severely restricted in their choices. Now that we are moving into an energy field which will stop the splintering of the collective, it will become easier over the next few years.
The dark is loosing ground rapidly, even so it doesn't appear that way.

[naturesflow]

Originally Posted by Rah nam

I see it more as the changed behavior in the collective, not to create situations were people, including children are severely restricted in their choices. Now that we are moving into an energy field which will stop the splintering of the collective, it will become easier over the next few years.
The dark is loosing ground rapidly, even so it doesn't appear that way.

Yes its always a good reminder that the individuation process is affected by the whole and sometimes that is where the individual has "no choice" but to be in the experience as the collective has created. Until the collective is undone, that confinement is often about something greater than just the individual's choice.

Originally Posted by Greenslade

I'm lazy because I only hold enough information to get me by, the other reason is that my head leaks and much of the information is lost anyway.

I feel roughly the same and there's so much to retain so I suppose my 'mind' is a yoke on which the bits hang then I can go through them if I have to. It's been a long term interest but the hope of knowing everything is pretty remote (for me, anyway).

I can read up on neuroscience and all the rest of it but it doesn't help me deal with a mother who has dementia Scientifically there the best I can hope for is to read a list of possible symptoms and see which ones present themselves, but that's not much use for the emotions and the frustrations. Numbers leave me cold but the idea of quantum theory is fascinating in what possibilities are open and the explanation of some aspects of Spirituality - like the creation of reality being akin to the double-slit experiment.

If I may say, you seem engaged in the clinical side.

I wonder how many Spiritual people understand how their own heads work even at a basic level yet they proclaim their own highly conscious self-awareness anyway.

Anyway, hope you find it interesting and let me know if you find any revelations. And you're very welcome.

When spiritually-inspired people shun psychology and neuroscience (and quantum maybe) they seem to be slamming a door on many possibilities. Or perhaps the subject is too heavy-going or unromantic which I'd bet weighs into it.

Well, the book is on its way. A big tome - 800+ pages but if similar books are anything to go by, about 15% will be references. On glancing though the contents on Amazon it may serve as a workbook as much as a straight-through narrative. Let's wait and see. With the improving weather I can sit on the beach to read it when not working.

Cheers. :)

.