the role and nature of logic in the process of existence.

[weareunity]

Hello all.
Any thoughts to share re the topic title?
Particularly wondering personally about the role of logic in the process of existence, and if logic is like a fundamental of existence which we--and other species--are able to recognise, or is logic more of a construction in the minds of our species and any others?
Cheers.X

[FallingLeaves]

well it seems like to the extent that logical thought matches observation, 'logic' would itself be a part of existance????? It seems to me there are other kinds of thought as well though, an obvious example being mathematics...

[weareunity]

Hello FallingLeaves.
As is probably obvious, I'm out on a limb here and possibly sawing the limb away from the trunk whilst sitting on it. Can't tell--but such is exploration.hey ho.

Wondering if the process of existence with which all participates has infinite possibilities regarding occurrences/manifestations/phenomena etc. so that all occurrences/manifestations/phenomena etc. are logically possible as components of that process?

Now the branch is coming adrift and some sort of answer forming whilst floundering in mid air:--

Yes--but with a crucial caveat.

Logic itself in some manner accompanies the sequencing of "previous" causes and effects which have gone "before" and which have the result of creating the conditions which allow further logical occurrence to happen in the "present".

"Previous", 'before" and "present ' are terms which suggest the involvement of 'time'.

But perhaps "not as we know it Jim"--to quote was it Dr. McCoy in early StarTrek?

Not "time" as a measurement but "time"as a sequencing order disregarding the properties of the interval between ,for example, "then" and 'now".

So the caveat is --Not Necessarily immediately.

This notion throws up no doubt many possible consequences whose understanding is perhaps the specialised study of others more knowledgeable.

One such possible consequence which does occur to me however has to do with the stability of the necessary sequencing mentioned above.

For if---by some means--that stability is made unstable by even the smallest measure then present logic would become at odds with its own historically sequenced origin.

The logical result could perhaps be the equivalent of a system reset?

There could be a big bang perhaps?

Could be just me and the branch hitting the deck however.

Cheers X

[FallingLeaves]

Originally Posted by weareunity

Wondering if the process of existence with which all participates has infinite possibilities regarding occurrences/manifestations/phenomena etc. so that all occurrences/manifestations/phenomena etc. are logically possible as components of that process?

well maybe anything is possible, but to me that doesn't mean there can't be a specific direction things take as opposed to us always sitting in the realm of infinite possibility?

So the caveat is --Not Necessarily immediately.

i think that a good insight. It seems like often people are too impatient to take into account that the reality is, some things in our reality take time. I was thinking the other day it could be like the digestive tract in a human body? Takes time for the old food to move through if you are going to feed yourself something new....

One such possible consequence which does occur to me however has to do with the stability of the necessary sequencing mentioned above.

For if---by some means--that stability is made unstable by even the smallest measure then present logic would become at odds with its own historically sequenced origin.

it crossed my mind that a being/beings in other 'dimensions' (for lack of a better term) could somehow possibly manipulate both the present possibilities and our view of past occurances, so that to us things would seem coherent to those of us who live within the system. The same way lego blocks can't move themselves about but I can certainly rearrange them to my heart's content?

There was something I think the 'mandela effect'? That sorta hinted that at times this is done in an imperfect way that individuals can see if they open their eyes....

[JustBe]

I would say logic is used as a comparison (of things), to make sense of the universe. So I would say it’s a construct of mind, as a means of mapping and patterning.

When you understand yourself through the nature of ‘just is’ you’re more aligned and seeing through awareness of ‘what is’ not what is logical and what you think is. It’s a stepping stone through the journey of self discovery and mapping things out, but in the ongoing infinite nature of existence, most things fall away when you stop thinking the whys and how’s and when, your more clear, open and aware of ‘all things’ as they are, logic integrates into a more whole body functioning.. so for me if somethings logical in my mind, I might defend it fiercely as being right and true, where as my logic if it’s integrated with intuition and open mind, I’m encompassing and aware of things as a creator, through a wider stream of interconnected reality. It’s not right and true for all reality, but only to me through my processing abilities..

The more open and clear I am as an integrated human, the more my creations are embodying a whole awareness of reality as one. Also too, why each piece of the whole, has its place at any given moment, including logic. Your logic might say ‘yes’ let’s do it. That fits perfectly to my existence.. my intuition, one with your logic might say ‘no’ it doesn’t feel right or sit right in my intuition..so we wouldn’t align to the creation your stepping into. It doesn’t mean it’s not right for you, but it’s not right for me..that’s logical to me haha..

It makes for a nice discussion and exploration.

[FallingLeaves]

Originally Posted by JustBe

So I would say it’s a construct of mind, as a means of mapping and patterning.

you could use it either as a descriptive mechanism like that, or to determine a basis for activity by 'discerning' how to get to some desirable future state from the existing descriptions.

It’s not right and true for all reality, but only to me through my processing abilities..

that is as as opposed to what the rest of us do, use our 'logic' as kind of a hammer to try to back up the idea that our own desires are the one true proper desires... twinkle...

It doesn’t mean it’s not right for you, but it’s not right for me..that’s logical to me haha..

yeah it very much makes sense.

I used to try to go to other people's creations, so I wouldn't be so alone. This having understood noone is coming to mine and noone else seems to even know about the hall between creations much less want to go there lol.

It is really awful, force fitting yourself into a place you don't belong. I suppose I learned a lot but did I really have to?

[wstein]

Originally Posted by weareunity

Any thoughts to share re the topic title?

Logic is to existence as the map is to the territory.

Logic created by certain types of intelligences helps them in navigating the underlying patterns of existence. This feedback loop then has a minimal effect on the further happenings in existence.

[winter light]

Logic is also a function of physical expression and perspective. Even though on the mental level it amounts to drawing maps and boxes around experience, there is also an art to aligning your logic with the physical world.

For example, in two dimensions like wet or dry, inside or outside, male or female, alive or dead. And I think acupuncture is an elegant example of dimensions of the human body function, where the most common models have at least 12 energy channels (some models have more) and each of those energy channels have a binary quality of excess or deficit, making 24 dimensions.

That need for alignment is often forgotten and when that happens the perspective gets very limiting and has little support for life. And life returns the favor, because it mirrors our intentions, together creating a self-sustained feedback tunnel or kind of addiction. The state of our technology and culture is currently like this, where we worship ideas and forget who and what the technology is supposed to serve.

So it helps to sometimes reset things once in a while. To step back from models that are taken for granted as the whole picture of what matters. Most important I think is to remember that logic, whether based on spiritual or material models, should be seen to serve life and being, not the other way around.

[weareunity]

Hello all. With reference to "exploration"--mentioned in posts 3 and 4.

Seems to me that the exploration bus doesn't have regular stops but takes on those who flag it down. The destination is not known and the ticket price is the acceptance of uncertainty.

There is no guarantee of a comfortable journey. There are few recommendations available concerning what we need to take with us on the journey. Those few have been passed on by example rather than instructions and seem to function through inspiration to do likewise. Taking loving compassion with us as companion and leaving most else behind as exemplified by those from whom we take such inspiration figures largely in how to proceed.

[FallingLeaves]

Originally Posted by winter light

That need for alignment is often forgotten and when that happens the perspective gets very limiting and has little support for life.

there is actually quite a bit of support for life, in that when we go down those paths we always end up with something we so dislike that we find we have to do something about it instead oif just continuing as things are.... so yeah in a way it looks like a reset but really it seems to me like this is just another thing build into the system, to help us along....