So, God wants us to be perfect, right?

[Emm]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

No, you have to get Natalie Sudman's BOOK!
oh my...any youtube is nothing compared to the detail in her book , wow!
Her account is like no other...and she is so non-religious and absolutely brilliant in her writing.
(!) Ha, I feel pretty strongly about it, I see...LOL!


Emm, loved every word of your above post!

LOL Miss Hepburn and thanks.

I have read her book too, a while back and agree there's so much more to be gleaned from it. Just thought the video was a good taster.

[linen53]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

No, you have to get Natalie Sudman's BOOK!
oh my...any youtube is nothing compared to the detail in her book , wow!
Her account is like no other...and she is so non-religious and absolutely brilliant in her writing.
(!) Ha, I feel pretty strongly about it, I see...LOL!


Emm, loved every word of your above post!

I just ordered it. Thank you Miss Hepburn for the suggestion.

[Emm]

Originally Posted by davidsun

Reminds of some of Seth's stuff about 'value fulfilllment' (from http://www.valuefulfillment.com/what/essay.html :).

Nice article

Originally Posted by davidsun

"Of all the Seth and Jane Roberts concepts, value fulfillment offers the most all-encompassing basis for the meaning behind existence. The concept of value fulfillment excites many Seth readers because it offers a positive outlook on reality and the motivations of all consciousness. It also provides us with a powerful, life-affirming perspective on how consciousness creates on a mass level toward a betterment of the individual and the whole."

The thang about "no one really get hurt" brings up the whole issue about what 'reality' really is, however.

I mean, the fact is that spiritual pursuit of certain 'values' (say, that of being "'king' of the 'hill'" or "'king' of my 'own' 'island') result in peeps coming into conflict and/or neglecting/abandoning others and so both causing and (ultimately) experiencing, frustration, loss, pain, being 'abused', etc., etc., etc.

Now, one may/can say that (because 'spirit' is really indomitable, immortal, etc.) no one 'really' gets 'hurt' or 'loses', etc., etc.. etc. Or one may/can say that those peeps who cause or experience such have really contracted/chosen (at some 'deeper' level) to cause and/or experience such 'values'.

But, IMO, such perspective doesn't address the 'issue' of which or what kinds of 'values' - if and as 'pursued' - result in (from the quote above) Life progressing "toward a betterment of the individual and the whole (on a mass level)."

Of course, that may not be one of the 'values' that someone values or high up on person's hierarchy/list of values - which raises the question of the 'value' of such non-valuing - along the lines of Bashar's, in many ways 'individualsm'-'glorifying' (IMO) statement: "Life is meaningless, its us that puts meaning into Life" - which implies that Life has no real 'meaning' (or 'purpose' or whatever) beyond whatever one 'individualistically' chooses to 'assign' to it.

Values tho are an individual thing and of course there is value in experiencing contrasting aspects to your own. Without contrast you probably won't find the need or impulse to improve or expand on. Of course there is more to a truth of being than just the value component...the idea that we individually create our own universe is another so then putting contrast in a different perspective...as in an aid to your own evolution with our blessing and not such a negative quality afterall. We have a choice in how we want to percieve the contrast.

As Natalie Sudman shows she can view her own tragedy with a wider lense and with humour, it makes sense to her and is perfect in its evolution of becoming. With her book she adds value to others lives by taking away the fear of death and contrast. It all depends on how you wish to percieve life, with a narrow lense as in the parable of the six blind men and the elephant or the wider view to see the whole picture.

Originally Posted by Davidsun

Just saying that it strikes me that there is something quite meaningful that is missing in the above-expressed, endorsing "whatever we want' perspectives.

Of course, I do see what you're saying but to get the full picture would require many books rather than a glib sentence...but perhaps a sentence would allow someone to delve in a little deeper and find value and meaning through their own personal research.

Originally Posted by Davidsun

I do agree with the idea that 'expansion' as a 'result' of making choices and experiencing the result(s) thereof seems to be built into 'the scheme' of things, hence "God's Plan" or something like that, though maybe not in all 'individual' cases.

As I see it, and bringing it back to the notion of "God wants us to be Perfect"....its not that we are perfect or need to be but that the process is perfect in design to allow us to strive for excellence as mentioned on here earlier (can't remember if that was a Seth quote by you too Davidsun).

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by linen53

I just ordered it. Thank you Miss Hepburn for the suggestion.

You've made me very happy...I have never read an acct of an NDE like this, nor with such an intellectual way of writing!She has a very high IQ...
and I have read more NDEs than anyone for decades so that is saying a lot.

Howard Storm's book is more detailed than any of his interviews also.


(Watch the local news tonight south of you got egg size hail...my friends, oh my...people injured outside! Cars can't be driven!)

[davidsun]

Hi-Ho, Emm! I very much appreciate the closeness your 'read' and the 'cogency' of your 'response'. I resonate/agree with all of the 'pointers' you made. Just a couple of points to further clarify my 'drift' (first some snippets from your post to set the stage:

Originally Posted by Emm

... so then putting contrast in a different perspective...as in an aid to your own evolution with our blessing and not such a negative quality afterall. We have a choice in how we want to perceive the contrast. ....

.... With her book she adds value to others lives by taking away the fear of death and contrast. It all depends on how you wish to perceive life, with a narrow lense as in the parable of the six blind men and the elephant or the wider view to see the whole picture. ....

I also think that fear/hate of 'death' is one of humankind's biggest 'bugaboos', leading people to make some pretty 'bad' (in terms of 'negative' consequences) choices, thereby 'deepening' of the psychospiritual 'holes' they and others have to climb out of to get to 'heaven' (meaning a completely 'positive' psychospiritual state).

My 'pointer' is that some souls may actually 'perish' (I am not talking about physical 'death', now!) if and as a soul spirals into 'negativity' - which can be like a 'black hole' (from which no 'light' can emerge) event.

In this regard, I am reminded of Jesus's saying: "And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." IMO, there is a degree 'negativity' from which a soul may not have the fortitude, because that would require very hard (painful to them) choices, to 'recover' from.

I think, sometimes at least, "there is no (physical) 'death'" and "one can choose to experience anything one wants" messages may 'candy-coat' (my own impression is that Bashar et al. are pied-piper 'candy-coater' spiritual entities) and so steer attention away from the fact that choices which people/souls can make can really be for 'better' of for 'worse' in rather drastic (meaning spiritually deadly) ways - selfishness (i.e. presumed base-line 'individuality') being the 'gateway' thereto, paralleling 'excessive' and /or 'careless' drug-usage scenarios.

I would be happy to elaborate my views on this here or elsewhere.

Please note: I am not advocating 'fear' in this regard, but 'wisdom' born of respect for facts, rather. We aren't in a 'Disneyland' scenario, IOW.

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Calm yourself, 7L, it gave me time to enjoy the view.

That's good...were you travelling as well for a few days, or just enjoying the season round your way?

[Emm]

Originally Posted by davidsun

Hi-Ho, Emm! I very much appreciate the closeness your 'read' and the 'cogency' of your 'response'. I resonate/agree with all of the 'pointers' you made.

I appreciate that you mention this. Its good to know that we're on the same page LOL

Originally Posted by davidsun

I also think that fear/hate of 'death' is one of humankind's biggest 'bugaboos', leading people to make some pretty 'bad' (in terms of 'negative' consequences) choices, thereby 'deepening' of the psychospiritual 'holes' they and others have to climb out of to get to 'heaven' (meaning a completely 'positive' psychospiritual state).

I agree. Although my own fear of death is somewhat diminished, it has been replaced by the fear of the means...not a fan of pain or suffering so hope to transition in my sleep, the ego still wants some say in the matter LOL

Originally Posted by davidsun

My 'pointer' is that some souls may actually 'perish' (I am not talking about physical 'death', now!) if and as a soul spirals into 'negativity' - which can be like a 'black hole' (from which no 'light' can emerge) event.

In this regard, I am reminded of Jesus's saying: "And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." IMO, there is a degree 'negativity' from which a soul may not have the fortitude, because that would require very hard (painful to them) choices, to 'recover' from.

Hmmm, there's so much I would like to say here but it would take up too much time and space lol. However, I think I would like to ask you where you think the Soul resides? Who is it that suffers? The soul or the ego/personality?

Originally Posted by davidsun

I think, sometimes at least, "there is no (physical) 'death'" and "one can choose to experience anything one wants" messages may 'candy-coat' (my own impression is that Bashar et al. are pied-piper 'candy-coater' spiritual entities) and so steer attention away from the fact that choices which people/souls can make can really be for 'better' of for 'worse' in rather drastic (meaning spiritually deadly) ways - selfishness (i.e. presumed base-line 'individuality') being the 'gateway' thereto, paralleling 'excessive' and /or 'careless' drug-usage scenarios.

Again, can the Soul be negative? I'm not asking through a belief but bringing in some of my own experiences, there is a difference between the further reaches of the soul that extends into physical reality and the parts (because I have concluded we have many many levels) which live in a more positive environment. Through Seth's teachings I've managed to make sense of phenomena that happened to me personally that religion doesn't seem to touch on. The Soul is far more powerful than we have given it credit for and think this may be a sticking point for many. Physical life for example is one aspect of the Soul's focus as in this particular time and space. We think the Soul thinks and lives like we do. But we talk of it also as a multidimensional being but do we really know what that entails? If it has lives in many dimensions is the whole likely to suffer if only one of its parts becomes consumed by drugs or fear? I personally believe, as time is irrelevant where eternity is concerned, nothing and no-one is lost. Its a matter of how far we have to go down before we decide to let go of our own beliefs that are dragging us down before we can join our greater self in its true environment.

Originally Posted by davidsun

I would be happy to elaborate my views on this here or elsewhere.

I'm happy to converse here

Originally Posted by davidsun

Please note: I am not advocating 'fear' in this regard, but 'wisdom' born of respect for facts, rather. We aren't in a 'Disneyland' scenario, IOW.

I'm not sure facts will come into this kind of conversation as it generally centres around personal beliefs and experiences...if facts existed there'd be no more room for debate or discussion IMO As for Disneyland scenario...what's the matter with that? I'd prefer my heaven that way (without the monsters of course)

[davidsun]

Hello again, Emmy (allusion not to a 'child' but to to an entertainment-medium, award-winning 'actress' )

Originally Posted by Emm

I'm happy to converse here

Glad to continue con-verse-ationally 'dancing' witchoo.

Originally Posted by Emm

Although my own fear of death is somewhat diminished, it has been replaced by the fear of the means...not a fan of pain or suffering so hope to transition in my sleep, the ego still wants some say in the matter LOL.

Yah, the way I see it, it ain't 'death' that's the 'real' bugaboo (in terms of 'negative', i.e. deleterious consequences), it is 'fear' itself.

In reference to one's 'soul', I regard 'it' as being the living 'gestalt' or 'pattern' of one's psychospiritual, i.e. 'mental'-and-'spiritual' 'constellation', hence, in some sense at least, one's psychospiritual 'i'dentity (please accept this as a 'definition' for purposes of this conversation). In my book, I wote:

if and when you fear any conceivable contingency, remind yourself that, though such may indeed be problematic or painful, in and of itself no particular condition or circumstance is ultimately determining. Though you may indeed suffer injury, be set back, even (in terms of immediate objectives) experience outright defeat, you can always recover and get going again, by virtue of regenerative Spirit. And though you may become confused, make mistakes, even get completely lost for a while, by virtue of innate Intelligence, you can always find your way again and learn to proceed more adeptly. Keep sight of the fact that psychospiritually subscribing to fear causes your soul to shrink and shrivel, and that your Life will be less because of that. And so, rather than try to avoid or secure yourself against whatever you find threatening, choose to face it with faith in Life’s resourcefulness. No matter what happens in worldly terms, provided attitude and intention remain positive, you will grow psychospiritually stronger and more effectively carry on (if not personally, then transpersonally).

The issues/topics you brought up are many. Respond now if you wish or just wait for the moment. I will be making make some more dance 'moves' in relation to the rest of what you said and queried (about 'the soul') in your post.

[SoulGenesis]

Originally Posted by Emm

Hmmm, there's so much I would like to say here but it would take up too much time and space lol. However, I think I would like to ask you where you think the Soul resides? Who is it that suffers? The soul or the ego/personality?

Again, can the Soul be negative?

I find that also interesting questions, so we have no proof/Gnosis, but when we reincarnate with the memory/consciousness of previous life into a higher genetic intelligence, that might be somewhere else in the universe or as result of our own biological evolution on earth. At least I'm convinced that the Dalai Lama is a fraud, i.e. just a revelation of the principle, some kind of action art.
Jesus could be reincarnating here, but into which BODY? There I'm not convinced that his body was really that perfect, nor that genetic absolute perfection exists. But Jesus was not talking about himself but about the "son of men". So maybe or maybe not shall the truth set us free here on earth or the heaven will be literally in heaven and not in a heavenly future on this planet that might be hopelessly doomed, what doesn't make much difference for the reincarnating souls.

Physically, I'm also convinced that the "relativity theory" is a heavenly revelation. So time 4D is relative and the light/truth 5D is absolute. That resonates with quantum physics where there is non-destructible quantum information. The soul, in the sense of logical consistency could be a portion of that, i.e. the realization of absolute truth (God) is a condition for entering into intelligent life.



Now we have to learn from books, but when we reincarnate, the soul is our own book of our life experience and knowing. So nothing valuable/true will ever be lost.

[linen53]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

You've made me very happy...I have never read an acct of an NDE like this, nor with such an intellectual way of writing!She has a very high IQ...
and I have read more NDEs than anyone for decades so that is saying a lot.

Howard Storm's book is more detailed than any of his interviews also.


(Watch the local news tonight south of you got egg size hail...my friends, oh my...people injured outside! Cars can't be driven!)

Miss Hepburn, Colorado Springs got especially hit hard with baseball size hail at the Cheyenne Mountain Zoo. You can watch a video on You Tube: type in Cheyenne Mountain Zoo hail bear exhibit. You can see the bears get pelted. Dawson Ranch, near where I live, got 2 feet of pea size hail a few weeks back and destroyed a lot of property. So sad.

I've read countless books on Afterlife, more than NDE's. So I will enjoy this one. I'll look into Howard Storm's book as well.