Unless you become like little children

#1 13-02-2019, 06:38 PM

I am interested in interpreting and understanding scripture. This particular scripture fascinates me.

Matthew 18:3-4......."And he said: 'I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. Therefore, whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.'

For me this is a call to simplicity. We consume ourselves with focusing on the intricacies of faith, attempting to develop a rationale and a faith that is ironclad and without fault. This scripture is a call to revert to that which has been lost to us......the innocence of a child. Note that the word 'change' is used.....indicating that we have changed into something that is an impediment to our spiritual journey. I used to think about this scripture and thought that this means, among other things, that the development and increasing influence of the ego as we become older is the unstated culprit. And perhaps it is to a large extent. This understanding was based largely on verse 3......I was guilty of ignoring somewhat the following verse 4.....i.e. 'whoever humbles himself'. This can be an explanatory verse.

My attention was drawn to this by 2 recent quotes I discovered by Hans Urs von Balthasar.

First......"To be a child means to owe one's existence to another, and even in our adult life we never quite reach the point where we no longer have to give thanks for being the person we are."

Second(and similar)....."Only the Christian religion, which in its essence is communicated by the eternal child of God, keeps alive in its believers the lifelong awareness of their being children, and therefore of having to ask and give thanks for things."

These 2 quotes seem to point to something that can be easily overlooked as we pursue what seem to be greater things. It is a call for returning to the most basic things and allowing those basics to be a foundation for our spiritual quests. What do others think? I am curious........

lowlyservant · #2 13-02-2019, 07:02 PM

On being a child, this verse comes to mind;

1 Corinthians 13:7. Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

#3 13-02-2019, 07:05 PM

I love these verses.

Jesus set the Little child in the midst of them.

So I am guessing around 5 or under. Since he was a size to pick up and set. Also little child.

So I have to go back in my childhood and I remember the:
Trust (in parents)
wonderment of life.
The sponge for learning.
Comfort.
Love and dependency.
The whole fascination with new things like nature.
The present moment oneness I felt.
The excitement of an upcoming event.
The time difference.(time was slow)
The joy of innocence.
The joy of no responsibility. (not that I knew what that even was)
So on and so forth.

#4 13-02-2019, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImthatIm

I love these verses.

Jesus set the Little child in the midst of them.

So I am guessing around 5 or under. Since he was a size to pick up and set. Also little child.

So I have to go back in my childhood and I remember the:
Trust (in parents)
wonderment of life.
The sponge for learning.
Comfort.
Love and dependency.
The whole fascination with new things like nature.
The present moment oneness I felt.
The excitement of an upcoming event.
The time difference.(time was slow)
The joy of innocence.
The joy of no responsibility. (not that I knew what that even was)
So on and so forth.

ImthatIm,

I love your response, thanks.....:) The very things that you mentioned seem to capture so much of the essence of childhood. They all seem to be things that can give us direction in our adult pursuits.

sky · #5 13-02-2019, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Molearner

I am interested in interpreting and understanding scripture. This particular scripture fascinates me.

Matthew 18:3-4......."And he said: 'I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. Therefore, whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.'

For me this is a call to simplicity. We consume ourselves with focusing on the intricacies of faith, attempting to develop a rationale and a faith that is ironclad and without fault. This scripture is a call to revert to that which has been lost to us......the innocence of a child. Note that the word 'change' is used.....indicating that we have changed into something that is an impediment to our spiritual journey. I used to think about this scripture and thought that this means, among other things, that the development and increasing influence of the ego as we become older is the unstated culprit. And perhaps it is to a large extent. This understanding was based largely on verse 3......I was guilty of ignoring somewhat the following verse 4.....i.e. 'whoever humbles himself'. This can be an explanatory verse.

My attention was drawn to this by 2 recent quotes I discovered by Hans Urs von Balthasar.

First......"To be a child means to owe one's existence to another, and even in our adult life we never quite reach the point where we no longer have to give thanks for being the person we are."

Second(and similar)....."Only the Christian religion, which in its essence is communicated by the eternal child of God, keeps alive in its believers the lifelong awareness of their being children, and therefore of having to ask and give thanks for things."

These 2 quotes seem to point to something that can be easily overlooked as we pursue what seem to be greater things. It is a call for returning to the most basic things and allowing those basics to be a foundation for our spiritual quests. What do others think? I am curious........

What is the kingdom of heaven?

#6 13-02-2019, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sky123

What is the kingdom of heaven?

sky123,

Not quite sure if this is meant to distract to the subject in hand or not. I would logically assume that with 5,000+ postings that you have a concept of the kingdom of heaven.....:) It is just that I see so many threads go astray over the defintion of terms or even one word. Nevertheless, I will give a very short answer(my opinion, you understand, not to be verified or contradicted by other source material).

First, because this is the Christianity forum, we are reminded that Jesus said...."My kingdom is not of this world". Furthermore, Christians generally make the assumption that if God, in fact, has a domicile it would be what we call 'heaven'. Every kingdom, by definition, has A king. For us to be part of a kingdom we are expected to owe allegiance and obedience to the king. If we do we remain as citizens in good standing......:) If not, we are either punished, exiled or deposed. As long as we remain in good standing we come under the protection of the king and can enjoy the privileges of being in his kingdom.

This is the short answer.....for particulars check with God......:)

davidmartin · #7 13-02-2019, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sky123

What is the kingdom of heaven?

paradise, a beautiful place, the opposite of this world, where we have to have locks on our doors and wars. it doesn't sell out to this world and go along with it

sky · #8 14-02-2019, 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Molearner

sky123,

Not quite sure if this is meant to distract to the subject in hand or not. I would logically assume that with 5,000+ postings that you have a concept of the kingdom of heaven.....:) It is just that I see so many threads go astray over the defintion of terms or even one word. Nevertheless, I will give a very short answer(my opinion, you understand, not to be verified or contradicted by other source material).

First, because this is the Christianity forum, we are reminded that Jesus said...."My kingdom is not of this world". Furthermore, Christians generally make the assumption that if God, in fact, has a domicile it would be what we call 'heaven'. Every kingdom, by definition, has A king. For us to be part of a kingdom we are expected to owe allegiance and obedience to the king. If we do we remain as citizens in good standing......:) If not, we are either punished, exiled or deposed. As long as we remain in good standing we come under the protection of the king and can enjoy the privileges of being in his kingdom.

This is the short answer.....for particulars check with God......:)

Jesus said that the kingdom of heaven is within , sometimes it's described as within and without, so what /where is the kingdom of heaven?

I personally think it's a state of mind, so I was trying to work out what ' Become like Children ' means in regards to a state of mind. I have heard children describe heaven as a magical place in the sky

Mybe it's wherever/whatever you perceive it to be as perceptions influence our realities.

Honza · #9 14-02-2019, 07:20 AM

With regards to the kingdom of heaven. I would say it is as much a place as one's own mind or heart is a place. After all; where does the heart and mind exist? They must exist somewhere.

People say the kingdom of heaven lies within - where is 'within'? You need to have a place for there to be any 'within'...

sky · #10 14-02-2019, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Honza

With regards to the kingdom of heaven. I would say it is as much a place as one's own mind or heart is a place. After all; where does the heart and mind exist? They must exist somewhere.

People say the kingdom of heaven lies within - where is 'within'? You need to have a place for there to be any 'within'...

It's obvious the heart exists inside the physical body, you can see a heart but can you see a mind?

The mind is the spiritual Self’s personal domain, you can't see a mind nor can you see your spirit. When you realize that your true nature ' self realization ' is a spiritual being then that to me is heaven.