Who created the universe?

Originally Posted by DebbyM

Sure. We can say that if you want. And all those titles (in my opinion) are names for different aspects of the Source of the universe. Where you and I would differ is on all the stuff between, if you know what I mean. The doctrines, the favouritisms, the judgementalism, the arrogance, the sorrow and pain, all of which are invariably attendants to religious participation. Those titles are aspects, juust as I am an aspect of that source, as are you, as is the earth, the moon, dark matter.... It is all One and It is here to experience, Itself.

Think about how a lava lamp works. There's this big golden glob of 'something' and a bit of it breaks off and floats up and does its own thing for a while and then it begins to sink back down and when it reaches the 'source' of its being, it blends in and becomes 'one, again, with the All'. We never disappear, we never end, we are always a part, and in the end we just become one with the All.

That's what I think happens. In a nutshell.

Doctrine shouldn't be given so much emphasis as to create a division within the Body of Christ, that is, how a true non-denomination church defines themselves.

Energy that is produced continually reveals itself in motion, which then is experienced through the association of phenomena. We can also call this the Tri-unity of matter.

You're right, doctrines shouldn't create divisions in what is essentially the same 'club', just different takes on the same thing right? But you know that is exactly what happens. You have Baptists, Methodists, Seventh Day Adventists, Catholics, Protestants, Amish.....and they all have variations in their doctrinal story that cause HUGE divisions. And that's maybe one thing that causes many people to leave the churches when they feel they can no longer be signatories to those differences and hence the divisions.

Originally Posted by TeeHee

Doctrine shouldn't be given so much emphasis as to create a division within the Body of Christ, that is, how a true non-denomination church defines themselves.

Energy that is produced by itself is revealed in motion, which then is experienced through the association of phenomena. We can also call this the Tri-unity of matter.

Does your supposedly true non-denomination church teach that Jesus came as a human being, or did the doctrine of your church originate from the word/spirit of the anti-christ, who refuses to acknowledge that Jesus came as a human being, born of the flesh as are all human beings who all originate from the seed of Adam.

And if such is the case and your non-denomination church refuses to acknowledge that Jesus came as a human being, and in fact pre-existed as some immortal god who was the co-creator of the cosmos, woud you care to try again to prove from God's holy word where the evidence can be found to support the doctrine of the worthless shepherd that God raised up after He, through his earthy host body, the man Jesus, in which he revealed himself to us, was paid the majestic wage of 30 peices of silver? See Zechariah 11: 12 to 17.

O! You shepherd of the darkness who claims God sent him out
And even though we know that’s true, that fact I wouldn’t flout
For God commanded Zechariah, “Throw my wages ‘cross the floor,
Those thirty bits of silver, for I’ll guide this flock no more
A worthless shepherd now I’ll raise to guide this stubborn flock
And he will be a useless one, of him I’ll take no stock
For he’ll not feed my little ones, nor search for them that’s lost
But he eats the meat of the fattest sheep. And their hoofs? He tears them off
That worthless shepherd, he is doomed for abandoning my flock
His power, will I destroy by war, his arm will wither dry, then drop
And his right eye will I turn Blind, that’s why he’s never seen
The passage where I speak of him, Zechariah eleven—twelve to seventeen.

Originally Posted by S-word

The universal soul, which is the divine animating princile that pervades the entire universal body and all therein, is that which causes the electrons to revolve around the Nuclei, and it is into that soul which is imprinted, all the information of all the lifeforms that it has become, which information is taken in through the senses of those bodies that the Logos has become, and the Logos is eternal.

When your body is returned to the body of universal elements from which it was created, and your portion of the universal soul is returned to the Logos, a facsimile of you still exists in the universal soul, and If that information is not rejected, you will be botn again, when the universal body will be resurrected from the seemingly bottomless pit, into which it will one day descend.

But we, the minds/spirits that develop within these bodies that the Logos has become, do not necessarily live for ever, there is much information that is gathered to the Logos, which is later separated from the eternal soul/lifeforce of the universe. For he is able to divide your spirit from his soul.

But why would that information be rejected (thus [in your opinion] resulting in some'one' not being born again). That universal soul that you speak of, comes to experience life and even non-life, in all it's forms and shapes. That 'information' is the sum of all the experiences It comes to have. Why would It reject that which it chose to have?

And if we are an aspect of that universal soul, and really just a part of it, why would we not live forever? If that Universal soul is what animates this shell that houses It, then when my body dies, why would that animating energy die? This body is a biological machine and it's purpose is to be the vehicle for that Universal soul to experience itself, life, good, bad.....

The concept that you've suggested here "For he is able to divide your spirit from his soul." has connotations of self mutilation. Are you seriously thinking that a Creator would do that? Dividing spirits away, refusing experiences which it's various 'incarnations' had, and thereby refusing parts of itself......Hardly creative acts.

And as always, the above is only 'my opinion'.

Originally Posted by S-word

Does your supposedly true non-denomination church teach that Jesus came as a human being, or did the doctrine of your church originate from the word/spirit of the anti-christ, who refuses to acknowledge that Jesus came as a human being, born of the flesh as are all human beings who all originate from the seed of Adam.

And if such is the case and your non-denomination church refuses to acknowledge that Jesus came as a human being, and in fact pre-existed as some immortal god who was the co-creator of the cosmos, woud you care to try again to prove from God's holy word where the evidence can be found to support the doctrine of the worthless shepherd that God raised up after He, through his earthy host body, the man Jesus, in which he revealed himself to us, was paid the majestic wage of 30 peices of silver? See Zechariah 11: 12 to 17.

O! You shepherd of the darkness who claims God sent him out
And even though we know that’s true, that fact I wouldn’t flout
For God commanded Zechariah, “Throw my wages ‘cross the floor,
Those thirty bits of silver, for I’ll guide this flock no more
A worthless shepherd now I’ll raise to guide this stubborn flock
And he will be a useless one, of him I’ll take no stock
For he’ll not feed my little ones, nor search for them that’s lost
But he eats the meat of the fattest sheep. And their hoofs? He tears them off
That worthless shepherd, he is doomed for abandoning my flock
His power, will I destroy by war, his arm will wither dry, then drop
And his right eye will I turn Blind, that’s why he’s never seen
The passage where I speak of him, Zechariah eleven—twelve to seventeen.

What's your question?

Originally Posted by DebbyM

But why would that information be rejected (thus [in your opinion] resulting in some'one' not being born again). That universal soul that you speak of, comes to experience life and even non-life, in all it's forms and shapes. That 'information' is the sum of all the experiences It comes to have. Why would It reject that which it chose to have?

And if we are an aspect of that universal soul, and really just a part of it, why would we not live forever? If that Universal soul is what animates this shell that houses It, then when my body dies, why would that animating energy die? This body is a biological machine and it's purpose is to be the vehicle for that Universal soul to experience itself, life, good, bad.....The concept that you've suggested here "For he is able to divide your spirit from his soul." has connotations of self mutilation. Are you seriously thinking that a Creator would do that?

And as always, the above is only 'my opinion'.

Yep! although I may hate many of the actions of my past, I treasure the memory of those mistakes, as they prevent me for making those same mistakes in my future. But there are some memories which have nothing to do with my past actions, memories of things that I have witnessed that were performed or spoken by others.

Those memories I push way back into the chambers of the mind that is I, until they are finally lost in time.

DebbyM wrote.....why would that animating energy die?

Apparently you do not comprehend that which you read, if you were capable of comprehension, you would know that I had said that the animating principle that pervade the entire universal body and activates all therein, is eternal and cannot die, but that your mind/spirit can be divided from that universal life force.

DebbyM wrote.....Why would It reject that which it chose to have?

Did you chose all the information that has been taken in through the senses of your body, from which "YOU" the invisible mind/spirit have developed?
And are there memories in "YOU," that you would dispense of if you were able?

DebbyM wrote.....The concept that you've suggested here "For he is able to divide your spirit from his soul."

O, but this is not my concept, but a concept that you will find in God's word.

I've left them in the desert, on the beach and in the snow
On the mountain tops, the river beds, in fact everywhere I go
Tiny footprints --- Indentations --- to mark the pathways that I've trod
Yet they vanish to the sight of all, except the piercing eye of God
And he's always been beside me, since the day I ceased to crawl
He watched me take my first small step, saw me stumble, saw me fall
Life lets me make my own mistakes, and god--- how many have I made?
But thank the Lord I've learned from them, that's how life's game is played.
The life I've lived, the guilt, the shame, but I wouldn't change a dot
For it's made me who I am today and to me that means a lot.
O, I'll never be an Einstein, a Rembrandt, or Khayyam
But I've gained a greater inner peace, and I'm content with who I am
Undoubtedly, I'll fall again, Mistakes will knock me off my feet
But they'll be new encounters mate, Past sins I'll not repeat
For I store the memory of my crimes, like others store their gold
And my treasure house keeps growing, as my future life unfolds......By S-word.

Originally Posted by DebbyM

What's your question?

I think that he is putting so much emphasis on this subject so as to say that we have to remember that Jesus was also fully human, and exhibited emotions, such as weeping for Lazarus. If that is a question and not a statement then, yes, we acknowledge that Jesus was fully human but not with original sin as passed down from father to their children. But it is my personal belief that Jesus received from Mary his fully human nature, and His divine nature from that of the Holy Spirit.

Perhaps he wants to know whether I believe, that is, if I personally think whether Jesus is God? or just another man? In fact I believe that Jesus is both God and man. That is, unblemished without original sin.

As for the rest, it really does in some ways matter to what I believe, after all my faith is a continual action based on beliefs and therefore sustained by confidence. God hasn't failed me yet, I see and witness His many blessings in my life and to those around me. I have much reason to give thanksgiving each and every day and night.

God--He is worshiped (Matthew 2:2,11; 14:33).
Man--He worshiped the Father (John 17).
God--He was called God (John 20:28; Heb. 1:8)
Man--He was called man (Mark 15:39; John 19:5).
God--He was called Son of God (Mark 1:1)
Man--He was called Son of Man (John 9:35-37)
God--He is prayed to (Acts 7:59).
Man--He prayed to the Father (John 17).
God--He is sinless (1 Pet. 2:22; Heb. 4:15).
Man--He was tempted (Matthew 4:1).
God--He knows all things (John 21:17).
Man--He grew in wisdom (Luke 2:52).
God--He gives eternal life (John 10:28).
Man--He died (Rom. 5:8).

As for the rest of the questions, if you want to know what my church teaches, well, its hard to convey the decades of messages in a nutshell. I do attend two churches, for FYI, one denominational free and one Evangelical and do so weekly.

(Throws a little memorized poem for appreciation)

Three crosses stood on Calvary
Stark against the sky.
Roman soldiers laughed to see
Three ways a man may die.
Crosses still stand on Calvary
Stark against the sky,
And some still laugh to see
Men die... hear little children cry.

Originally Posted by S-word

Yep! although I may hate many of the actions of my past, I treasure the memory of those mistakes, as they prevent me for making those same mistakes in my future. But there are some memories which have nothing to do with my past actions, memories of things that I have witnessed that were performed or spoken by others.

Those memories I push way back into the chambers of the mind that is I, until they are finally lost in time.

DebbyM wrote.....why would that animating energy die?

Apparently you do not comprehend that which you read, if you were capable of comprehension, you would know that I had said that the animating principle that pervade the entire universal body and activates all therein, is eternal and cannot die, but that your mind/spirit can be divided from that universal life force.

DebbyM wrote.....Why would It reject that which it chose to have?

Did you chose all the information that has been taken in through the senses of your body, from which "YOU" the invisible mind/spirit have developed?
And are there memories in "YOU," that you would dispense of if you were able?

DebbyM wrote.....The concept that you've suggested here "For he is able to divide your spirit from his soul."

O, but this is not my concept, but a concept that you will find in God's word.

I've left them in the desert, on the beach and in the snow
On the mountain tops, the river beds, in fact everywhere I go
Tiny footprints --- Indentations --- to mark the pathways that I've trod
Yet they vanish to the sight of all, except the piercing eye of God
And he's always been beside me, since the day I ceased to crawl
He watched me take my first small step, saw me stumble, saw me fall
Life lets me make my own mistakes, and god--- how many have I made?
But thank the Lord I've learned from them, that's how life's game is played.
The life I've lived, the guilt, the shame, but I wouldn't change a dot
For it's made me who I am today and to me that means a lot.
O, I'll never be an Einstein, a Rembrandt, or Khayyam
But I've gained a greater inner peace, and I'm content with who I am
Undoubtedly, I'll fall again, Mistakes will knock me off my feet
But they'll be new encounters mate, Past sins I'll not repeat
For I store the memory of my crimes, like others store their gold
And my treasure house keeps growing, as my future life unfolds......By S-word.

Well I agree with you that the creative power never dies but I think it's entirely possible that you're in error when you think that you and that force are divisible. You are a part of it, just as the small glob is/was a part of the larger in the example lava lamp. For a time, a small portion of the larger, becomes you in order to experience life from a different perspective (yours) as opposed to the experiences that It may have through me.

Let me ask you, what do you think was the purpose of God creating all the world? And what does God do with the bit of information (as you put it) that is acceptable from us? What is the specific purpose of doing that and why do it?

You said, ""For he is able to divide your spirit from his soul." and when I questioned you on that, you replied, ".. this is not my concept, but a concept that you will find in God's word." Please pass the reference. I don't recall that one, particularly the way you use it. By the way are 'spirit' and 'soul' interchangeable or in your mind, are they two very different items? We have spirits, but God has a soul. Hmmm? And what do you base that on?

I'm interested in where you're coming from and what you base your philosophy on, but in all honesty, I doubt very much that I'll be hitching my wagon to your horse. At this point, I can't see any purpose for our existence, based on what I've read from you so far whereas from the perspective of my journey, I see more reason, more order, more balance, less judgement, more love, more acceptance.

But at the same time that I'm saying all these things, I readily acknowledge that we each have different needs and travel different paths and you've had a specific need (that you may not even be aware of) to believe as you do. So more power to you.

Originally Posted by DebbyM

Well I agree with you that the creative power never dies but I think it's entirely possible that you're in error when you think that you and that force are divisible. You are a part of it, just as the small glob is/was a part of the larger in the example lava lamp. For a time, a small portion of the larger, becomes you in order to experience life from a different perspective (yours) as opposed to the experiences that It may have through me.

Let me ask you, what do you think was the purpose of God creating all the world? And what does God do with the bit of information (as you put it) that is acceptable from us? What is the specific purpose of doing that and why do it?

You said, ""For he is able to divide your spirit from his soul." and when I questioned you on that, you replied, ".. this is not my concept, but a concept that you will find in God's word." Please pass the reference. I don't recall that one, particularly the way you use it. By the way are 'spirit' and 'soul' interchangeable or in your mind, are they two very different items? We have spirits, but God has a soul. Hmmm? And what do you base that on?

I'm interested in where you're coming from and what you base your philosophy on, but in all honesty, I doubt very much that I'll be hitching my wagon to your horse. At this point, I can't see any purpose for our existence, based on what I've read from you so far whereas from the perspective of my journey, I see more reason, more order, more balance, less judgement, more love, more acceptance.

But at the same time that I'm saying all these things, I readily acknowledge that we each have different needs and travel different paths and you've had a specific need (that you may not even be aware of) to believe as you do. So more power to you.

All matter cannot survive as matter, all three dimensional bodies in their material state will die ,even the material universal body, but that life of the universal soul, the personality of that soul will survive, but the soul of man that sins, the life/personality of that soul will die, and will not be found in the most righteous Soul of God.

DebbyM wrote....I can't see any purpose for our existence, based on what I've read from you so far whereas from the perspective of my journey, I see more reason, more order, more balance, less judgement, more love, more acceptance.

We are in the process of evolution, or rather the evolution of the new ruling body on earth had already occured in the previous period of universal activity. Enoch was the chosen cornerstone to that new species, and he evolved on the chosen spirits of mankind from that period, of which this world it its resurrection. The Glorious Simulacrum/blueprint of the bodies of Light that will dwell on earth among mankind as the supreme rulers of the creation visible and invisble, was the body that Enoch the living one had become. but that glorious simulacrum is the sacrificial lamb, and it dies in the process of involution, for the salvation of mankind, the body in which and from which the Glorious Simulacrum had evolved.

By releasing those who were obedient to him in certain points of his evolution, he will decrease as the body of his glorious chosen Sons are born, untill He, as an individual being will have ceased to exist, but he will be the indwelling God to the new Glorious beings of Light, of which bodies Jesus the first born of the Sons of God, is the Godhead to that body of ruling beings who are born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but like Jesus the firstborn, of the spirit that will be released from the great heavenly sacrificial simulacrum which will descend upon those who were obedient to him in his evolution to the ends of time.

Because these sons of God, are immortal beings, there is only a certain number who are required, for these immortals will not have the reproductive powers of humans from which they are chosen. My hope and the goal of my life is to be counted among they who are born of flesh as all men are, and who like our human brother Jesus, are brought to perfection through suffering and will win the victory over the god of this world, and will, as was our brother Jesus, be born of God's spirit: see Hebrew 5: 7-10. and we who have born the image of the first Adam, will then bear the image of the resurrected body of Jesus, the second Adam.

In his new glorious body of brilliant and blinding light, He/Jesus, on the road to Damascus, answered Saul's question, "Who are you Lord?" with these words, "I am Jesus of Nazareth whom you persecute."

And Jesus our brother, who was given divine glory, by our saviour, and who is now incontestably divine, sits in the throne of our Father, and the chosen ones, who have born the image of the first Adam, shall also bear the IMAGE of Jesus the second Adam, which is a new creation of bodies of Glorious and blinding Light, that is the Temple that is to replace God’s old tabernacle (Mankind) as supreme rulers on this earth.

First Man was created a little lower than the angels, then crowned with glory and all creation placed beneath his feet. All creation is placed beneath the feet of MAN, WHO IS CROWNED WITH GLORY, we have not yet seen this happen. But we have seen Jesus, the first fruits to be harvested from the body of man, the first born from the dead past of the "Son of Man."

Jesus, who has won the victory and was given divine glory by our heavenly Father and saviour, and now sits in His heavenly throne of Godhead: and who, in Revelation 3: 21; invites those; who win the victory also, to sit with him in our Father’s throne of Godhead within the creation. And all creation Visible and invisible, which according to Paul, includes even the angels, will bow at feet of the chosen Sons of God.

From the words of Righteous Enoch: "And Now I will summon the spirits of the good who belong to the generation of the light, and I will transform those who were born in darkness, who in the flesh were not recompensed with such honour as their faithfulness deserved. And I shall bring forth in shining light those who have loved My holy name (I AM WHO I AM), and I shall seat each one on the throne of his honour. And they shall be resplendent for times without number.

And now I know this mystery, that sinners will alter and pervert the words of righteousness in many ways, and will speak wicked words and lie, and practise great deceits, and write books concerning THEIR words. But when they write down truthfully, all My words in their language, and do not change or minish aught from My words, but write them all down truthfully _____________ missing__________ all that I first testified concerning them. Then I know another mystery, that books shall be given to the righteous and the wise to become a cause of joy and uprightness and much wisdom. And to them shall the books be given and they shall believe in them and rejoice over them, and then shall all the righteous who have learnt there from all the paths of uprightness be RECOMPENSED. In those days the Lord bade (them) to summon and testify to the children of earth concerning their wisdom. Show it to them: for ye are their guide, and a Recompense over the whole earth. For I and My Son will be united with them forever in the paths of uprightness in their lives: and ye shall have peace: rejoice, ye children of uprightness, Amen.

But if you choose not to enter the race for one of those positions, that is up to you. If you have no desire to win the victory over the god of this world and inherit eternal life, that is your choice entirely, but let me assure you of this, mankind was not the end of the process of the evolution of those who have gone before us and have entered into the 8th eternal light generation of the universe, in which there is neither hours, days, weeks, months, or years, where all time is stuck together in one aeon, the eighth Cosmic Day, in which the seven days or periods of three dimensional universal activity, eternally revolve, where, into the refining fires of physical life, those who fail to win the victory, must forever return until they do.

Originally Posted by TeeHee

I think that he is putting so much emphasis on this subject so as to say that we have to remember that Jesus was also fully human, and exhibited emotions, such as weeping for Lazarus. If that is a question and not a statement then, yes, we acknowledge that Jesus was fully human but not with original sin as passed down from father to their children. But it is my personal belief that Jesus received from Mary his fully human nature, and His divine nature from that of the Holy Spirit.

Perhaps he wants to know whether I believe, that is, if I personally think whether Jesus is God? or just another man? In fact I believe that Jesus is both God and man. That is, unblemished without original sin.

As for the rest, it really does in some ways matter to what I believe, after all my faith is a continual action based on beliefs and therefore sustained by confidence. God hasn't failed me yet, I see and witness His many blessings in my life and to those around me. I have much reason to give thanksgiving each and every day and night.

God--He is worshiped (Matthew 2:2,11; 14:33).
Man--He worshiped the Father (John 17).
God--He was called God (John 20:28; Heb. 1:8)
Man--He was called man (Mark 15:39; John 19:5).
God--He was called Son of God (Mark 1:1)
Man--He was called Son of Man (John 9:35-37)
God--He is prayed to (Acts 7:59).
Man--He prayed to the Father (John 17).
God--He is sinless (1 Pet. 2:22; Heb. 4:15).
Man--He was tempted (Matthew 4:1).
God--He knows all things (John 21:17).
Man--He grew in wisdom (Luke 2:52).
God--He gives eternal life (John 10:28).
Man--He died (Rom. 5:8).

As for the rest of the questions, if you want to know what my church teaches, well, its hard to convey the decades of messages in a nutshell. I do attend two churches, for FYI, one denominational free and one Evangelical and do so weekly.

(Throws a little memorized poem for appreciation)

Three crosses stood on Calvary
Stark against the sky.
Roman soldiers laughed to see
Three ways a man may die.
Crosses still stand on Calvary
Stark against the sky,
And some still laugh to see
Men die... hear little children cry.

Then let me take a wild guess as to what your church teaches.

Would it teach that Jesus pre-existed as a god, who was the co-creator of the cosmos, and that he came down to earth and entered the womb of a 14 year old virgin girl, in whose body, (Without losing her virginity) a human like body for the creater of the cosmos was created by his father god, but that human like body was not of the seed of Adam as are all human beings.

To avoid Jesus inheriting the sin of Adam, I assume that your church teaches that his mother also had to be born of an immaculate conception, but I don't know how she didn't inherit Adam's sin unless her mother also was born of an immaculate conception, which would demand that her mother also was born of an immaculate conception, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc.

How are we going there, pretty close to the mark am I?

One would think that If Jesus was not born of the flesh as all human beings are, but was born of a virgin without male semen having been introduced into her uterus, then this would have been the greatest of all miracles, and would have been shouted from the roof tops by all four gospel writers and yet we see that Mark and John ignore the physical birth of Jesus as being totally irrelevant to the story of salvation and begin their account of He, who was sent in the name of the Lord, with the Baptism of the man Jesus, when he was born of the spirit of our Lord God and Saviour, as the heavenly voice was heard to say, “You are my beloved in whom I am well pleased, THIS DAY I have begotten thee.” see the more ancient authorities of Luke 3: 22; before they were changed by the universal church of Constantine.

While Matthew merely translates the Hebrew, Isaiah 7: 14; “An "Almah" who is a young unmarried woman who is pregnant (Present tense, is pregnant) will have a son and will name him ‘Immanuel.’”

And Luke simply reveals that the young "pathenos" (unmarried girl) the 14 year old Mary, was still a virgin three months before she was found to be pregnant.

Due to her obedience to our indwelling ancestral spirit, she conceived in her womb the child of the biological father chosen by the Holy Spirit, who was her half brother Joseph the son of Heli, who was also the father of Mary, but they were born of two different mothers, as were Abraham and Sarah the biological children of Terah, who were the Parents of the child of God's promise according to the workings of the Holy Spirit. And the act of obedience by Mary the obedient handmaid of the Lord, was hidden in the shadows beneath the wings of the Lord of Spirits, which had overshadowed her act of obedience.

Obedience to the Holy spirit is not sin, in fact, sin is the disobedience to our evolving indwelling spirit.