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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Spirituality

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  #31  
Old 10-02-2018, 10:37 PM
Lorelyen Lorelyen is offline
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Thank you, Greenslade and SaturninePluto for your responses.

If I had a gripe it's about the way the word is bandied around as just a bad component of identity/personality without understanding of it being very much a part of spirit, the outer layer maybe, the public face, but I can't see how it (as an object as I read the title of the topic) hinders the spirit. Exchanges between it and the "outer world" feed the spirit that in turn modulates perception of that outer world. Isn't that "experience?"

If I had to model mind it would be nervous system in action. Ego is discernible as a series of responses to the summation of sensory inputs accessing life experiences in the various bits of working memory (associated with those senses) and wired to a database of deeper memories. It doesn't give all the answers and never as simple as one sense leads to just one part of the brain IIRC; but one's spirituality can be seen as the mediation between longer term memory and working memory; the refinements made in one's stimulus-response repertoire with heightened awareness/attention.

Trying to make sense of it is a work in progress though. Both Freud and Jung had the right ideas, attempting to get to a person's experiential data through how the symbols related to outward behaviour.

..
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  #32  
Old 11-02-2018, 03:09 AM
Rah nam Rah nam is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HealerW
In my paradigm, I think the mind is the link between the Ego and personality. The personality encompasses all things relating to the body and desires, whereas the ego encompasses thought.

One could see it that way, the way I see the ego and spirit, the Ego is the body/mind complex And the personality is the body/mind/spirit complex.
The challenge for the spirit is, to develop a trust relationship. It might not be easy, yet not impossible.

It was suggested somewhere, the Ego can be killed off, sure, with a bullet through the head. But this is only temporary because next time the spirit enters a new incarnation, if it chooses to do so, the last experiences and all before that, will be downloaded again. This data bank is part of the planet as are the body/mind complex.
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  #33  
Old 11-02-2018, 03:47 AM
inavalan inavalan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HealerW
First let's talk about thoughts. For simplicity, let's define thoughts as strings of words from your native tongue spoken silently in your head.

The Ego is a specific thought: "I", "me". Whenever you use the word I, you're introducing your ego.

I like pizza. The Ego likes pizza. Your Ego is separate and individual from everything else. BUT, it identifies with your body and thoughts. The Ego calls the body and thoughts "I".

The Ego is in a war with the Self, which is the real substance of who you are.

The Self resides in the background of awareness. This background of awareness is seamless and continual through your life. He reason you think the Self ends when you sleep and begins when you wake up, is because you look at the world from the outside. So then of course the background of awareness seems to stop and start.

Try this: when you wake up, ask yourself who is there first. The awakened presence is the Self. But the moment thoughts start going through your head, the Ego is at his dirty business.
When you wake up, you feel like you are still the same, but your awareness changes, you remember who you are, things become clearer and more coherent. You feel that this you is more important, while the dream you is less. When you die, your ascending self feels the same way, as waking up, it remembers who it is, things become clearer and more coherent, your physical self's life becomes less important, as one of many. You realize what was abnormal in your physical life, as you realize now what was abnormal in a dream life.
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  #34  
Old 11-02-2018, 10:15 AM
Greenslade Greenslade is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaturninePluto
It goes further though for me, the word self is used often with ego. But even self does not quite cut it exactly for me. You see the word I from English translated into Latin becomes the word Ego.

Therefore when spiritual discussions of Ego, and Ego death and how to rid oneself of Ego come up I realize authors whom would advocate such- or wherever the notion that one has to eradicate their Ego has come from is to me, unhealthy as a view of one's own identity.
I had a discussion with someone about the self/ego and all they were doing is redefining the word and comparing themselves against it. 'Ego' was for lower Life forms, 'self' for Spiritually aware people and 'Self' for the Spiritually advanced. Spirituality has a penchant for redefinition and 'ego' has been redefined - by the way it's often used in the forums - as the root of all evil. It's not Spiritual at all but very Victorian, as in "the demon ego made me do it." Technically what they're talking about is the Shadow Self or the dark side that everyone has but Spiritual people prefer to lock out because..... It's not 'Spiritual'. That's where arrogance and pride comes from, they are usually caused by aspects of our Shadow Self and with a little work they can be transmuted. So-called 'ego death' is simply where aspects of ourselves we don't like - usually what is judged not worthy against the highest of Spiritual standards - is consigned to the Shadow Self where it grows sharper teeth in the darkness. You can't actually eradicate your ego, unless you're a very highly advanced Spiritual master that's dedicated your Live to doing just that. The effects of that don't bear thinking about quite frankly, because I'd imagine the consciousness becoming unstuck in reality causing, the said master would go ga-ga. Ego death is the daddy of all ego traps and illusion in Spirituality.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaturninePluto
Honesty simply hurts too much.
Everybody has an agenda, and 'agenda' is not necessarily a swear word. Look behind the mask.
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  #35  
Old 11-02-2018, 10:49 AM
boshy b. good boshy b. good is offline
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Quote:
ego
when we step up to righted, we might enjoy.

when we step up (to) wrong we might be
allowing. ( cause stuff might not be easy'ed
around ).

when we step up to good, we might embrace.

Quote:
when we step up to evil, instead of hatred we might
hook up our heart to the "awesome" of good or and
up. have be good got or and up. "that's real."
i like these.

m. m.?

m. m. : progress is not as much as good.

Last edited by boshy b. good : 11-02-2018 at 01:35 PM.
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  #36  
Old 11-02-2018, 10:53 AM
Greenslade Greenslade is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorelyen
If I had a gripe it's about the way the word is bandied around as just a bad component of identity/personality without understanding of it being very much a part of spirit, the outer layer maybe, the public face, but I can't see how it (as an object as I read the title of the topic) hinders the spirit. Exchanges between it and the "outer world" feed the spirit that in turn modulates perception of that outer world. Isn't that "experience?"
For me it's about getting to some kind of real understanding and a little closer to some kind of truth. Yes it is experience but how you perceive yourself in whatever shape or form that takes will have a difference on your Spirituality. Very simplistically, if you're fighting with your ego then your whole experience will come from a perspective of conflict and that will have a cascading effect into every other aspect of your Life. Ego is the basis of your paradigm and those - with other things - form the foundations of your Spirituality.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorelyen
the refinements made in one's stimulus-response repertoire with heightened awareness/attention.
Awareness of and attention to? Our psychological framework probably has the greatest impact on our Spirituality but it's largely ignored for the theologies and ideologies, and thata's indicative of the state of our psychology on its own. If our heads aren't straight because we're 'damaged', does that mean our Spirituality is also 'damaged'? If our 'Spiritual self' is the only one worth thinking about, what does that say about us?
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  #37  
Old 11-02-2018, 01:15 PM
Lorelyen Lorelyen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenslade
Awareness of and attention to? Our psychological framework probably has the greatest impact on our Spirituality but it's largely ignored for the theologies and ideologies, and thata's indicative of the state of our psychology on its own. If our heads aren't straight because we're 'damaged', does that mean our Spirituality is also 'damaged'? If our 'Spiritual self' is the only one worth thinking about, what does that say about us?

Yes, this is something that Jung seems to have sorted out. I'm acting somewhat dangerously from too little neuroscientific knowledge, the question being how neurons reprogram patterns as part of a learning process. (Not to go into a debate about it here except to say that the summation on the post-synaptic dendrite leading to an action potential seems to change as we learn.) So the more detail we extract from our awareness (our uncluttered intake of "what's out there") the stronger position we can develop about "reality", our perceptive processing.

My knowledge is probably hopelessly out of date. It's something I kept up interest in because of a wider interest in systems and communication (semiotics). I felt that Freud's model (that seemed to deny spirituality) is ok for his clinical use but doesn't explain mind in enough detail. My knowledge of Jung's work is slight but it seems his break with Freud was over components that influenced personality growth that may have affected the content of the mind but not how it works - as I see it. I may be wrong.

I wouldn't be as presumptuous as to pit myself against these masters. I just see the mind as physiological, processing data and taking in the entire body, not just how we interpret external stimuli (how perception works) but resultant motor action of the body, the firing off of hormones etc. Without doubt there are researchers out there looking at this.

It won't for a long time explain a 6th sense or input channel that definitely seems to exist.
.
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  #38  
Old 11-02-2018, 03:49 PM
Raziel Raziel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HealerW
You are in Truth the background of awareness, or the man behind the curtain, if you will.

If the pursuit of conquering Ego is necessary to human kind why would it be there?

The hunter gatherer would have predators, food & shelter to concern themselves with - would ego & self really be part of the equation?

If not - why not?

If so, how would this help the species survive?

Concerning itself with "afterlife" problems when "actual life" problems were nipping at it's heels.

I barely care but as I understand it ego is translated from the word ahamkara which roughly translates to “the I maker.” This “ego” definition refers to one’s sense of self.

I am a good hunter, he is not would aid who went for food.


As a species we learn through trial & error to master. The land, the sea & air - we have been to the moon.

Could it not simply be that once we had spears, bows & fire that life became easier. We built civilisations & began to spend time thinking more than we persued the original basic needs as we had conquered them to an extent.

I always think of the scene from Les MisÚrables - the poor & hungry sheltering under the bridges with crying babies.

Is it for those people to ponder the ego?

Would they not do better simply picking up a sharp object & taking what they needed .. like their ancestors did?

War within the self is for soldiers who have killed - am I evil, was it moral to kill an enemy etc etc.

I like pizza - is not something to be concerned about surely?




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  #39  
Old 11-02-2018, 05:11 PM
CrystalSong CrystalSong is offline
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Consciousness is ever evolving, for those aspiring for it to be so, and with that our understanding of the Purpose of Ego and our relationship with it changes, or so it seems to me in this Now.

Currently my understanding is that the body is the vehicle to have experiences in the 3D dimension and the mind (ego) is the operating system to keep the body safe and explore this Garden Earth and the myriad of possibility's possible here. It interprets danger and releases chemicals like adrenalin, recognizes the need for sleep, can handle 3D related technicalities like car driving, math, taxes and social and cultural norms and develop a persona among other things. It creates, invents, makes relationships and uses it's body to discover.
There are many things it can not do though concerning Higher Planes and Beings from Higher Planes and Higher States of Consciousness. It is limited to being the Master of the Third dimension.

Ideally we are composite beings and each aspect of our total being should have a vote at the table:
1/3 Body (which has it's own wisdom and way to communicate)
1/3 Mind (Ego/personality) (which translates, interprets and acts/reacts and organizes life in the 3D dimension)
1/3 Spirit (eternal self which has had many body/minds in the expanse of time)

To me Ego is not a bad thing or a thing to slay or get rid of. Should I (Persona CrystalSong) do that I can't drive safely, do taxes, compute Math or even connect to other people from a human perspective, instead I am Blissed out, often time slipping, generally ungrounded, so Open I slip in and out of others bodies whenever my attention goes to them, I become ONE with everything with no separation and completely untethered from the body/mind I was born this lifetime into. This is not a good way to live all the time and one becomes dependent on others for basic care and needs, additionally it is invasive (from a human perspective) and dangerous (driving etc)
We are, I believe, here to have a human experience, otherwise we would have been born a sponge on Alpha Centuri or some other body vehicle somewhere else, or stayed in Spirit form and not come into a body. :)

So there is a balance and integration which is desirable - the ability to have a human experience with all its joys and pains and also be able to be in simultaneous recognition and experience of being an eternal Spirit based in Unconditional Love for all and anchor that Love back into the human experience and share it to others who have forgotten the Transmigration of the Soul. (I don't mean preaching, but instead living the Love one IS)

There comes a point on the Journey where one discovers the Fullness that they are and becomes unhinged from the human consciousness state, flying high in Bliss and Love and Euphoric states of radical connection to ALL That IS.
Eventually one discovers they still have a body to slep around, they haven't turned into a beam of Light or Ascended into Higher Realms. This is when it is time to begin to anchor all that higher knowledge and access back into the human body - to become that composite Being giving Body and Spirit the vote that Ego/Mind alone could have never done before awakening when it believed it was the totality of the self.

To me the Ego is not a bad thing at all, though some people don't use it well and have become lost in it's endless needs, demands and wants for attention and material goods. However a well controlled Ego is a vast and wonderful tool for fully experiencing the 3rd dimension and the rich fullness of this particular Garden third rock form the sun. :)
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  #40  
Old 12-02-2018, 05:06 AM
boshy b. good boshy b. good is offline
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when the ego wants to get comfortable
instead, that's at' i'm in.

does the ego be up with surprises, like
g, super, does the ego *cough cough*
like surprises then, super.
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