Having sufficient vs striving for more

[Belle]

from the thread on poverty ..

Originally Posted by Belle
this attitude of having sufficient stops you striving for better or maximising your potential.

Fascination ensues.

I was led to understand that the Universe provides that which you need and not always necessarily that which you want.

I see it as a good subject to discuss.

So this arose from a little conversation on work and I don't know what to think - not a new scenario for me. Anyway. A lovely lady just happened to mention that someone had said that the Dalai Lama and the attitude of "having enough" was a way that people are kept repressed, preventing from striving for more.

FOr me the jury's out. I think it is an argument that might hold water in certain senarios, but for others, surely it's a good thing to try and up your stake in the material world, better living accommodation, better healthcare?

I'm less thinking of the western world in this argument - but the philosophy does apply to the western world?

Just posing some thoughts - I'm curious as to what people think.

My Wife has a cousin that is going to be one of the richest men in the graveyard.So I really do not know what to think.

I did manage a small acid test for myself... Do I need to be affluent or is just enough ..enough ?

It turned out for me personally, that enough was sufficient, in fact in one small non physical, case , I have more than enough, but that is not affluence.

[Belle]

So, for me, I have more than I need, I want more but i'm greedy.

I think of those in Indian cultures I think - particularly in the caste system and the lower castes - who do not break out of the caste system and cannot - because they have an inherent belief of this being their lot. And sure enough it is a huge cultural issue that I cannot understand but there are many many bright and articulate and intelligent workers where their brain could be utilised more fully for a greater good - and also improve their standard of living.

i don't know what the answer is - whether believing that is a method of control or a way of bringing peace.

I wonder if even it matters.

That Is to say..Hypothetically , Person A has enough. Person B has enough.

Person A has accepted what they have. Person B wants more.. Person B may want more so that they can become philanthropists. Person B may want more to live in a Mansion, Person B may want more to be more secure in themselves.

In the final analysis it matters not whether one was a person A or a Person B anyway.

I suppose then, the things we value are the things we personally attach value to, I do not think for one moment that there is a correct or incorrect approach as things are rarely that cut and dried and feel sure that I have striven for my meager position in the ant hill of humanity.

I think I am pointing toward the impression that I have that all of it is far bigger than this one life and that which we do in it.

Quiet aside from that, striving and ambition seems to be a part of us. A setting almost.. I do lament a little that I have reached my Zenith and wonder how so very much more I could have, should have done.. But then cop out monumentally by attributing those things I should have done but did not to destiny.

I think we are approaching in this discussion, or at least dancing around, the divergence of free will versus destiny. You will know already that in some regards our ambition is often curtailed by destiny... So keep pushing or acceptance . I feel sure there are several points at which we should not roll over, that said I also feel sure there has to be a point when we can say OK that's me , I did my bit.

The bringer of peace is when we give up the chase , I think, When we arrive at that place for us that this is the place.

In the interim , we remain ever our own whip masters... How much whipping can I take? How much standards do I set too high for myself? when does this consistent aiming too high , drive hope into the shadow?

Suffice to say, I never managed the mansion, nor the Maserati or the Holiday Villa, No Private Jet, No American Express Gold Card..

I don't think , on reflection that God (whoever he/she is) had that in mind for me. But just how do we measure wealth? Cash... Goods...

I found my security someplace else... I found mine in a currency that is not subject to what the Dollar is doing or interest rates.

I found my security and wealth in Love, and I am fairly sodden in it... I gave and give a lot out, investing it...

So , It might even sound pretentious, I am loaded, just not with money or material things.

[Belle]

Neville those who find their all in love are richer than the man with the masaeriti.

I guess, I think of the little boy in the himalayan village I went to. He had dark dancing and bright eager eyes. He spoke English and a dialect of Indian. He was about 8 years old. This little boy would never make it outside the village, he was destined to follow in his father's footsteps - who was the proud owner of a small hotel. A successful businessman one might say. But this boy was intelligent and wanted to learn. He loved to talk and listen, he wanted help with his maths and he wanted answers. There were other families in the area with similar children but their fates were less optimistic, they came from a line of road-builders and so were destined to look forward to a career in clearing the rubble from the road. But some of them might have had an education and gone on to have a decent job with healthcare?

Anyway it was an interesting angle that I heard at work - is telling people they can be content with what they have a way of repression and control or a way to peace?

this is one of my favorite lecture topics. politics of peace aside with all the hypothetical scenario.

as an individual should i be content or ambitious?

i say both are sides of same coin. we cannot have one without other.

i would like to explain in detail but i am travelling for next 30hrs. will continue after that. hope all you wise ones will be able to unravel this puzzle by then. typing long on phone is difficult.

is telling people they can be content with what they have a way of repression and control or a way to peace?

In this case I invoke Occam's Razor...

a principle of parsimony, economy, or succinctness used in problem-solving. which states that among competing hypotheses, the hypothesis with the fewest assumptions should be selected.

What a cop out on my part.. I know, but I have long favoured the simpler over the complex life, I think that this is because one is more grounded in simplicity than in complexity.

For Governments, doubtlessly it does have the advantage of being both a control and repression tool, but for the individual it can possibly be a liberation in that it lifts one beyond the base needs of power and control exercised by some governments.

It is a dichotomy, an oxymoron even, our freedoms being measured by the experiencer and not the commentator.

[Belle]

Neville that's a beautiful answer. It's not a cop-out, because sometimes things can be both things at once.

[Belle]

Originally Posted by bkveda

this is one of my favorite lecture topics. politics of peace aside with all the hypothetical scenario.

as an individual should i be content or ambitious?

i say both are sides of same coin. we cannot have one without other.

i would like to explain in detail but i am travelling for next 30hrs. will continue after that. hope all you wise ones will be able to unravel this puzzle by then. typing long on phone is difficult.

I look forward to your thoughts. Thank you, in advance.

[Lightspirit]

I think human 'emotional greed is the most destructive self and world destroying problems we have at the moment if it is allowed to be applied to material possessions too much.

Human emotional greed says "I want more because without it I can't be happy!"

Higher learning is more mature in that it says I have enough and because I do have enough I will try to refrain from excess so there will be some for others.

At some point you eventually realise material possessions are only superficial and bring only short term happiness.