Lost among the liars and labels

I have spent the last day visiting this and other "spiritual" web communities and to varying degrees I fail to understand how everyone navigates the liars and the labels to pull out genuine pearls of wisdom in the "web" domain.

Like many people here, it seems, I have done the spiritual taste testing tour. A little of this a little of that. Picking up and absorbing pieces that are valuable to help us along on our personal "journey."

But at some point, it always seems that all traveled roads where humans are involved are saturated with liars and labels. They say, I am this, I am that. You are right I am wrong. I am offended by that name/generalization. "Follow my short cut to enlightenment," blah blah blah. So much of the dialogue seems to boil down to high-school social structures dominated by the popular kids, bullies and hustlers.

I know I probably sound cynical. But I am more tossing this out to see what comes back.

As an example, I recently thought it would be interesting to investigate modern (neo?) shamanism. I liked the idea (of the idea) of learning to become more in tune with nature. I was almost immediately and sorely disappointed. I found what I felt were some really well polished charlatans attempting to pray on fears and provide promises of power. Purist who were angered that people dare "steal" and pervert their knowledge. Conflicting ideas but no clear indication of what it was. Well not much beyond gaining and altered state and having visions through psychotropics or extreme physical distress. In other ways it felt like a repackaging of old stuff jammed into a shamanistic context. To be fair I am being a bit sensationalistic. But you can probably swap the above for any modern "religion" and you get the same experience.

I am eager to hear your thoughts.

I've noticed the same kinds of things as you and I'm sure heaps of other people have as well.

To be honest, it didn't take me long to become fed up with "fishing" for something "real" and say "each to his/her own" and go my own way. I was always impatient like that....

I don't follow any specific spiritual "path," religion or practices save my own and it's worked out quite well for me. Personal experience is law for me, anything else is just whatever.

Maybe your heading that way too..?

Are you planning on doing anything about any of this? Or just happy to accept and put up with it all and see what others think?

Originally Posted by Sangress

To be honest, it didn't take me long to become fed up with "fishing" for something "real" and say "each to his/her own" and go my own way. I was always impatient like that....

I like that you mentioned impatience. It hits home.

Originally Posted by Sangress

I don't follow any specific spiritual "path," religion or practices save my own and it's worked out quite well for me. Personal experience is law for me, anything else is just whatever.

I too don't follow any specific path because none of them so far agree with me 100%. I will say that in all my tip-toe studies, face first plunges, or experiences so far, the most lasting and impressionable have been personal ones. And I agree, as you stated, those are defining as law. Though I have never put it in that context.

Originally Posted by Sangress

Maybe your heading that way too..?

It would seem so now more than ever. Though "all roads I have traveled" lead me back to a God-centered view point. And I mean god in an all encompassing sense, not a specific religions view. And that is a lot to hope to comprehend in our short life span - if it is possible at all.

Originally Posted by Sangress

Are you planning on doing anything about any of this? Or just happy to accept and put up with it all and see what others think?

Indeed I am. Also, I am not happy to accept and put up with. I do find that mentors as well the views of others be it through books or conversation often offer viewpoints I can't see for myself. They also offer "gutchecks" for me to reflect on.

But at the same time, perhaps, I have not truly defined what it is I believe. Maybe my "religion" or "spirituality" is a pile of disorganized notes on a desktop. Huh?!

Thanks Sangress!

Edit - I don't mean for my last comment above to be taken as pessimistic. But as something to ponder.

[psychoslice]

Yes i agree with Sangress, if your going to try and find anything outside yourself, well what do you expect, your only going to hear what every one else has to say, its their own thoughts, their own beliefs, and so on, stop the expectations, and search for your SELF, find your own TRUTH.

Originally Posted by ManyToOne

A little of this a little of that. Picking up and absorbing pieces that are valuable to help us along on our personal "journey."

If you've done the above, then the liars and the labelers have served a purpose for you and you can appreciate them to the extent you were able to find a diamond amongst the rough.

Perhaps one day there will be a critical mass of those of us that are truly oriented towards Truth and Intuition refined through Skeptical Inquiry and through the combined psychic weight, perhaps even collaboration, we are able to put a voice out loud enough to impact how people search and pick through the buffet of paradigms and meme pushers.

Welcome to the boards. There's a variety of people here, ranging from those just starting to explore themselves, to the jaded cynics, to the truly insightful, and the confrontational. Depending on what you focus on, you'll either enjoy it here or move on. Hopefully you enjoy it here. :) The skeptical yet inquiring attitude is welcome here. (or at least nobody has tried to kick me out yet.)

@ Topology

Thank you for the thoughtful reply and warm welcome.

I had to re-read your initial comment a few times to process what you were saying and to appreciate it. Thank you!

I hope, and think I will, find like-minded folks here. But also those who cause me to challenge my perceptions and grow.

YOu are cynical and rather bold on your first post.

Have you been to India?
I have an analogy. In india, merchants will try to rip you off and you will see people openly defecating in the streets (and poverty i won't mention), but does that stop people from going to india for its beauty, its ashrams, its people, culture and all other wonderful things?
No, but some people only worry about the poo on their shoes as they sight see.
Don't dwell on the negative.

Originally Posted by MMM

YOu are cynical and rather bold on your first post.

I appreciate you pointing that out. I try to find good, or lessons, in all things. But sometimes I get overwhelmed by all the "potholes" in the road.

Originally Posted by MMM

Have you been to India?
I have an analogy. .... but does that stop people from going to india for its beauty, its ashrams, its people, culture and all other wonderful things?
No, but some people only worry about the poo on their shoes as they sight see.

I appreciate your perspective and that you shared that. If it's OK, may I share that with others when appropriate. My comments were borne of frustration and hope for some genuine perspective or affirmation. Which you kindly replied with. Thank you :))

http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/sh...5&postcount=23

Originally Posted by ManyToOne

I have spent the last day visiting this and other "spiritual" web communities and to varying degrees I fail to understand how everyone navigates the liars and the labels to pull out genuine pearls of wisdom in the "web" domain.

Like many people here, it seems, I have done the spiritual taste testing tour. A little of this a little of that. Picking up and absorbing pieces that are valuable to help us along on our personal "journey."

But at some point, it always seems that all traveled roads where humans are involved are saturated with liars and labels. They say, I am this, I am that. You are right I am wrong. I am offended by that name/generalization. "Follow my short cut to enlightenment," blah blah blah. So much of the dialogue seems to boil down to high-school social structures dominated by the popular kids, bullies and hustlers.

I know I probably sound cynical. But I am more tossing this out to see what comes back.

As an example, I recently thought it would be interesting to investigate modern (neo?) shamanism. I liked the idea (of the idea) of learning to become more in tune with nature. I was almost immediately and sorely disappointed. I found what I felt were some really well polished charlatans attempting to pray on fears and provide promises of power. Purist who were angered that people dare "steal" and pervert their knowledge. Conflicting ideas but no clear indication of what it was. Well not much beyond gaining and altered state and having visions through psychotropics or extreme physical distress. In other ways it felt like a repackaging of old stuff jammed into a shamanistic context. To be fair I am being a bit sensationalistic. But you can probably swap the above for any modern "religion" and you get the same experience.

I am eager to hear your thoughts.

sounds to me like what you're saying, in a word, is FAKE.

fake people. not genuine. not true.