Freedom from suffering

[Ewwerrin]

So you guys shared this idea, that I am the witness not the witnessed.

How does this change any suffering? It still exists...

[Miss Hepburn]

Detachment can be a great thing.
A gambler that has money on a horse race is very involved in the result...and attached to it.
I visitor to the track is just having fun watching the horses and the people and having a beer.

Witnessing, watching the 'play', can be very freeing from suffering.

I laugh now when I hammer my thumb...trust me, I did not used to!
It's a practice that turns into a way of life, viewing things and laughing at the crazy predicaments I find myself in!

Just sayin, dunno if that helps. Best wishes.

Originally Posted by Ewwerrin

So you guys shared this idea, that I am the witness not the witnessed.

How does this change any suffering? It still exists...

If you think your essence is of body and mind it doesn't. If you think awareness or consciousness is of mind it doesn't. If you are Awareness witnessing "your" mind-body just like any other mind-body that changes the equation, doesn't it? Of course this is the sticky part because unless it's known and beyond a shadow of doubt there's still room for suffering.

Taking a step back there's simple mindfulness and the Buddha's Second Arrow parable.

In the end there's always pain of one sort or another that's beyond our control (First Arrow). The issue is all the reactive suffering we pile on top of it by destructive rumination (Second Arrow). As Jon Kabat-Zinn sometimes says "Don't take things personally".

The philosophy is like the door cracked open a tiny bit. You have to enter the room (practice) to get the bigger picture.

[FallingLeaves]

it is awful, after a long time of endlessly paying high prices for a fleeting happiness/joy, to realize what the choice really is. The awfulness of Suffering, which you know keeps coming back despite your best efforts to get rid of it, or to do something else difficult just for another round of happiness that you've come to understand won't last.

Very confusing at best.

It must also be awful, having to listen to us being in so much pain when really there was no choice if we were going to survive...

[Miss Hepburn]

Ah, suffering/dissatisfaction..that thing that makes us stand up and say, "I'm not gonna take it anymore!"
A ref to the movie 'Network".
It goads us to look for That which 'lasts'.
The Cosmic Play.

[Maisy]

Originally Posted by Ewwerrin

So you guys shared this idea, that I am the witness not the witnessed.

How does this change any suffering? It still exists...

To me it means be in the moment. That way we suffer once from an experience we don't re-live it over and over with our memory.

[Joe Mc]

You've hit the nail on the head in your question. So who is
this witness and who is it that suffers ? It seems to be the crux
of the question nowadays especially in Non Duality. Is there really
a self there in the way that the self is phantomised
individually and collectively by society. In other words, if you do not
experience this and this you won't be that and that etc, to put it
simply.
The Buddha and his disciples used the Metaphor of the Chariot to draw
out Wisdom about the Self and it's Non Existence. Here is an article
which gives a bit more detail.

https://inthewordsofbuddha.wordpress...ly-designated/

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Originally Posted by Maisy

To me it means be in the moment. That way we suffer once from an experience we don't re-live it over and over with our memory.

This is true but the question is how? The answer is a lot of practice and one practice is meditation. It trains mind to let go of distractions, including thoughts, that arise during the practice of attending some object, staying present with that object. Eventually and with determination it can become second-nature.

Mind has to be reprogrammed and meditation takes advantage of neuroplasticity to accomplish that.

[ameliorate]

Originally Posted by Ewwerrin

If suffering/bliss is all there is, then those who choose bliss knowing that it sacrifices and benefits from all the suffering of others, are the most vile beings in all of creation.

I think you may have got things twisted here i.e. bliss is not sadistically gained!

https://mindfulnessquest.com/experie...personal-self/

[Ewwerrin]

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

This is true but the question is how? The answer is a lot of practice and one practice is meditation. It....
.... that.

Focus is a double edged sword. One can reach eternal and infinite bliss evermore and eternal and infinite despair evermore. More powerful and free one becomes, the more one can choose bondage in a bigger and worse way. And in an eternal time frame, there is no such thing is as not choosing something. The more one intends to not choose it, the more it becomes available.

So as important as focusing is, it is that equally important to learn how to defocus. To focus less, or unfocus. Especially when one is in tremendous suffering. Defocusing is the best tool to get out of that. Or to slow the momentum of that suffering down.