Our body.

[sky]

Originally Posted by In Flux

What immediately strikes the eye is the phrasing "our body". In the Pali canon the Buddha consistently speaks of "the body". I assume that this more neutral term is less likely to induce a mistaken concept of "self".

Yes, one little word changes the whole story 😊

[Joe Mc]

There are beings who are intoxicated with a [typical] healthy person’s intoxication with health. Because of that intoxication with health, they conduct themselves in a bad way in body… in speech… and in mind. But when they often reflect on that fact, that healthy person’s intoxication with health will either be entirely abandoned or grow weaker… (Upajjhatthana Sutta)

I think if you are in particularly or obvious bad health, its quite noticeable and maybe that is a strong factor in addressing that problem and where possible, restoring balance. I think attachment to health and to the body is probably a bit more subtle and is going on in equal measure in our world as much as much as ill health is. So it looks to me from reading some of the Buddhas scriptures and also observing addicted health people that they are very subtlely and almost undetectably attached to their bodies and act accordingly.

[naturesflow]

Originally Posted by Joe Mc

There are beings who are intoxicated with a [typical] healthy person’s intoxication with health. Because of that intoxication with health, they conduct themselves in a bad way in body… in speech… and in mind. But when they often reflect on that fact, that healthy person’s intoxication with health will either be entirely abandoned or grow weaker… (Upajjhatthana Sutta)

I think if you are in particularly or obvious bad health, its quite noticeable and maybe that is a strong factor in addressing that problem and where possible, restoring balance. I think attachment to health and to the body is probably a bit more subtle and is going on in equal measure in our world as much as much as ill health is. So it looks to me from reading some of the Buddhas scriptures and also observing addicted health people that they are very subtlely and almost undetectably attached to their bodies and act accordingly.

I was talking to someone tonight who shared that a young woman she knows is a strict vegan to the point where she cant be around people who are not vegan. So she has shut the door on all her friends in the past who are not. She is so passionate this young woman she wont break from her own standards. She is against mankind and would rather animals inhabit the planet, over humans...In the conversation she shared she has gut issues, which cant be identified. In listening deeper I realized that its not so much the choices we make for our body but the energy and intent behind those choices, which can harbour more in the body, than just a choice that isn't infused with anything but clarity of being...

[Joe Mc]

Originally Posted by naturesflow

I was talking to someone tonight who shared that a young woman she knows is a strict vegan to the point where she cant be around people who are not vegan. So she has shut the door on all her friends in the past who are not. She is so passionate this young woman she wont break from her own standards. She is against mankind and would rather animals inhabit the planet, over humans...In the conversation she shared she has gut issues, which cant be identified. In listening deeper I realized that its not so much the choices we make for our body but the energy and intent behind those choices, which can harbour more in the body, than just a choice that isn't infused with anything but clarity of being...

Yep strange one eh ? I mean she won't be singing the Holly's tune anytime soon, All I need is the Air that I Breathe and to Love You lol. Hope my boss hasn't turned into a Zebra as I want my wages today, Hang on I think he is a bit of a Zebra, no offence to any Zebras reading this postie. On a serious note, it must be a difficult one for parents, or close loved ones if they are interested at all ? Worrying on one level and something heroic in it on another level. hmmmmm

[BlueSky]

Originally Posted by Joe Mc

There are beings who are intoxicated with a [typical] healthy person’s intoxication with health. Because of that intoxication with health, they conduct themselves in a bad way in body… in speech… and in mind. But when they often reflect on that fact, that healthy person’s intoxication with health will either be entirely abandoned or grow weaker… (Upajjhatthana Sutta)

I think if you are in particularly or obvious bad health, its quite noticeable and maybe that is a strong factor in addressing that problem and where possible, restoring balance. I think attachment to health and to the body is probably a bit more subtle and is going on in equal measure in our world as much as much as ill health is. So it looks to me from reading some of the Buddhas scriptures and also observing addicted health people that they are very subtlely and almost undetectably attached to their bodies and act accordingly.

For me scriptures are a guide. It's the spirit of the law over the letter of the law thing. With that being said, that scripture quoted says to me to not be intoxicate with health. It doesn't say it shouldn't be important to you.
Life tells me that it is important and primarily because it brings balance to your body and mind.
It also feels good to take care of yourself and it's a rewarding journey to succeed at.
My point is it's not just for the unhealthy.

[BlueSky]

Originally Posted by naturesflow

I was talking to someone tonight who shared that a young woman she knows is a strict vegan to the point where she cant be around people who are not vegan. So she has shut the door on all her friends in the past who are not. She is so passionate this young woman she wont break from her own standards. She is against mankind and would rather animals inhabit the planet, over humans...In the conversation she shared she has gut issues, which cant be identified. In listening deeper I realized that its not so much the choices we make for our body but the energy and intent behind those choices, which can harbour more in the body, than just a choice that isn't infused with anything but clarity of being...

Yes but how else would this passionate woman find clarity with this issue except by doing what she thinks is right. I know it wasn't you who stated this but she's not strange, and if anything her passion and compassion are applauding IMO.
My feeing is that she is on a good path, albeit one that is in its infant stages.

[naturesflow]

Originally Posted by BlueSky

Yes but how else would this passionate woman find clarity with this issue except by doing what she thinks is right. I know it wasn't you who stated this but she's not strange, and if anything her passion and compassion are applauding IMO.
My feeing is that she is on a good path, albeit one that is in its infant stages.

I have no issues against anyone choosing their own path. It was a shared story, no judgement on whether it was strange or anything else.

I was more interested in the bigger picture of what was shown to me, to understand that sometimes passionate beings can be infused with fear and extreme levels in their cause, that will reflect in the body, to show how their "passion" can become more clear and balanced.

When one is compassionate for themselves its amazing what can transpire in the face of causes and passionate views, choices and ideals and how you manage the world around you in this way.

Her path as you see it in it's infant stages, I see more "no path" and a total being exploring and growing through choices and experiences. But that is just my view..

Something I learned in my Kinesiology studies. "The body never lies"...

Sometimes the body shows where our truth can be opened deeper to see more truth...:)

[Joe Mc]

Alas the word 'Strange'. First let's start with a song by The Doors called People are Strange. Well known to us all I think, here we go, hold onto your seats !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJY8jJkDoMY.

Now lets get to the real beef, oh sorry to mention that word! :) Now the word Strange as connotated in the Oxford English Dictionary goes something like this

adjective

1Unusual or surprising; difficult to understand or explain.
‘children have some strange ideas’
‘he's a very strange man’
with clause ‘it is strange how things change’

And also, it says,

Slightly or undefinably unwell or ill at ease.
‘her head still felt strange

I think the former, is the definition I used in relation to the young Lady who whilst becoming vegan has apparently become indifferent also and even hateful towards other Homo sapiens. In the sense that her predicament is Strange, "difficult to understand or explain."

What interests me even more is why people react negatively to the word, Strange, it's definitely been born out in the course of my life that when I mention that word in a neutral or even a positive sense I am met with a seemingly negative or dismissive reaction ? The word at best, if you read the above definitions, is neutral, maybe slightly negative but certainly not point blank negative in the way I've notice people reacting to the word itself.

To me the word Strange has always seem to speak about possibilities and potentialities, latent energy, unacknowledged growth hidden away somewhere in a tangential eddy of human experience, waiting to be uncovered and seen. In the case of the teenager turning Vegan, I should hope that she can see that many humans exhibit tremendous amounts of good will towards complete strangers, sometimes even heroic efforts of good will towards Strangers, (yikes it's that word again !!!) and dare I say, these good willing people eat meat.

Strange as it may seem. Strange to say. Perhaps if they stopped eating meat they might show even greater degrees of good will towards their fellow men and women. Just a couple of thoughts on the word 'Strange'. I haven't got the time or will to dissect the young newly Veganised woman's stance and growing estrangement with human beings who eat meat but it might be worth looking at soon, very soon! :) Would you find that Strange ?

[BlueSky]

Hi Joe, for me it wasn't so much the use of the word as it was in the sentence it was used but regardless I appreciate you taking the time to clarify your meaning.
Peace

[Joe Mc]

Originally Posted by BlueSky

Hi Joe, for me it wasn't so much the use of the word as it was in the sentence it was used but regardless I appreciate you taking the time to clarify your meaning.
Peace

Ok that's fine Bluesky but actually I was referring to a remark I made to Naturesflow, were I said, " Strange one eh ?" referring to the predicament at hand, namely the Vegan girl's estrangement with the human race. And I saw the word in question pop up again in one of Naturesflow's replies when she said, "I have no issues against anyone choosing their own path. It was a shared story, no judgement on whether it was strange or anything else." which prompted me to make a reply, which having read her sentence again, I'm so glad I did . Thanks.