Meditation and Vegan. Its NOT about the animals. Read first...

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Floatsy

If that was true you wouldn't have an issue with offering yourself up as food then?

There are instances of canibalism, as in the book/movie Alive, where people have struggled between the consumption of human flesh and survival. This is to a much lesser degree the issue of dietary moralism, where in in fact if one imposed their vegan moralism, malnutrition would be caused, such as in the case of the island dwelling villagers of New Guinea, for example. I'm not sure how 'loving' a vegan moralist could be in that situation. Maybe the 'loving' of animals would also be the malnutrition of infants. Seems to me that the shallow ideals of spiritualism don't actually reflect the real lived circumstances of life.

To me the issue isn't really so much within the killing of wild animals for the sake of sustenance, but the massive scale cruelty to livestock during their lives.

[knightofalbion]

Originally Posted by Gem

There are instances of canibalism, as in the book/movie Alive, where people have struggled between the consumption of human flesh and survival. This is to a much lesser degree the issue of dietary moralism, where in in fact if one imposed their vegan moralism, malnutrition would be caused, such as in the case of the island dwelling villagers of New Guinea, for example. I'm not sure how 'loving' a vegan moralist could be in that situation. Maybe the 'loving' of animals would also be the malnutrition of infants. Seems to me that the shallow ideals of spiritualism don't actually reflect the real lived circumstances of life.

To me the issue isn't really so much within the killing of wild animals for the sake of sustenance, but the massive scale cruelty to livestock during their lives.

Nonsense!

Plant based diets in Papua New Guinea

http://healthylongevity.blogspot.co....cific-and.html

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sc-hlt...123-story.html

Trying to promote some false romantic idyll ... Most islanders in the Pacific region these days live off fast food, tinned meats and other junk food! And they have amongst the highest levels of obesity, diabetes and other degenerative diseases in the world.

As for suggesting 'killing for sustenance', again misleading. Flesh made up only a small proportion of their diet. In any case, the waters have been chronically overfished and are dangerously polluted. And any fanciful suggestions of hunting animals is a complete non-starter. Given the considerably increased human population, all wildlife would be totally wiped out within weeks.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by knightofalbion

Nonsense!

Plant based diets in Papua New Guinea

http://healthylongevity.blogspot.co....cific-and.html

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sc-hlt...123-story.html

Trying to promote some false romantic idyll ... Most islanders in the Pacific region these days live off fast food, tinned meats and other junk food! And they have amongst the highest levels of obesity, diabetes and other degenerative diseases in the world.

As for suggesting 'killing for sustenance', again misleading. Flesh made up only a small proportion of their diet. In any case, the waters have been chronically overfished and are dangerously polluted. And any fanciful suggestions of hunting animals is a complete non-starter. Given the considerably increased human population, all wildlife would be totally wiped out within weeks.

I was raised in new guinea for 31 years, am fluent in the language and travelled quite widely among different cultural groups, both urban, rural and remote. You have zero knowledge and cultural experience, so I fail to see how you find it reasonable to try to teach me about it. You simply haven't a clue what you're on about.

[ajay00]

Originally Posted by Ginsune

Yet Buddhism & Hinduism, two very spiritual and very pro-meditative cultural / religious sects, you're allowed to eat meat.

See, both vegetarianism and non-vegetarianism prevails in Hinduism and Buddhism. Those who lead an active lifestyle and do manual labour tend to be non-vegetarian, though there are exceptions as well.

The Brahmins in Hinduism, especially the priests and scholars , tend to be strictly vegetarian. Same for the spiritual seekers and yogis.

Vegetarianism is generally extolled in Hinduism as a superior diet. This is because vegetarian diet is considered to correspond to sattva or positivity , and non-vegetarian with rajas and tamas , which stands for qualities of activity and brutality. Sattva is prioritized in Hinduism instead of rajas or tamas.

The sattvic mind, due to vegetarianism, tends to be calm and tranquil naturally, and it is easier to meditate with such a mind.

Non-vegetarian foods, which is predominantly rajasic, tends to make the mind restless, and it is harder to meditate with such a mind.


The same goes for Buddhism, where both a vegetarian and non-vegetarian diet abides, but where the preference is for vegetarian food.

The Buddha too extolled a vegetarian diet, but there have been instances where he had taken non-vegetarian food given to him by lay disciples.

The Buddha had stated thus in the Mahaparinirvana Sutra...

" The eating of meat extinguishes the seed of great compassion."


Tiruvalluvar, a sage who lived 2000 years back had written in his classic book Thirukkural thus.....

How can he be possessed of kindness, who to increase his own
flesh, eats the flesh of other creatures?.

Like the (murderous) mind of him who carries a weapon (in his hand),
the mind of him who feasts with pleasure on the body of another (creature),
has no regard for goodness.

Not to kill and eat (the flesh of) an animal,
is better than the pouring forth of ghee etc., in a thousand sacrifices.

All creatures will join their hands together,
and worship him who has never taken away life, nor eaten flesh.

[knightofalbion]

Originally Posted by Gem

I was raised in new guinea for 31 years, am fluent in the language and travelled quite widely among different cultural groups, both urban, rural and remote. You have zero knowledge and cultural experience, so I fail to see how you find it reasonable to try to teach me about it. You simply haven't a clue what you're on about.

'Raised' in New Guinea for 31 years?

Vegan in PNG
http://www.vegdining.com/travel/Trav...aNewGuinea.cfm

The population of Papua New Guinea has increased 700% in the last hundred years. It has trebled in the last 20 years alone.
Any 'hook and spear' philosophy is total fantasy.

Quite apart from the obvious spiritual, moral, ethical and animal welfare arguments against eating flesh. The planet cannot sustain the Livestock Industry even at its present rate i.e. the 'hogging' of precious farm land that could be put to more productive use growing crops for human consumption, rainforest deforestation, the wastage of dwlindling precious resources and the vast quantities of environmentally harmful effluent ...
How does that saying go? 'We don't inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children'. Thanks a lot! At least you got a few burgers out of it.

[knightofalbion]

Originally Posted by Floatsy

To know animals is to know they have feelings and thoughts just like you.

So true.

I say, if ones heart is so hardened one cannot know through empathy, then leave the factory farm shed doors open, leave the slaughterhouse gates open, let the poor souls show us how 'happy' they are to be imprisoned, to have their throats slit ...
I suspect we wouldn't see them for dust.

Life is dear to all.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by knightofalbion

'Raised' in New Guinea for 31 years?

Yes .

Vegan in PNG
http://www.vegdining.com/travel/Trav...aNewGuinea.cfm

The population of Papua New Guinea has increased 700% in the last hundred years. It has trebled in the last 20 years alone.
Any 'hook and spear' philosophy is total fantasy.

Quite apart from the obvious spiritual, moral, ethical and animal welfare arguments against eating flesh. The planet cannot sustain the Livestock Industry even at its present rate i.e. the 'hogging' of precious farm land that could be put to more productive use growing crops for human consumption, rainforest deforestation, the wastage of dwlindling precious resources and the vast quantities of environmentally harmful effluent ...
How does that saying go? 'We don't inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children'. Thanks a lot! At least you got a few burgers out of it.

[Floatsy]

Originally Posted by Gem

There are instances of canibalism, as in the book/movie Alive, where people have struggled between the consumption of human flesh and survival. This is to a much lesser degree the issue of dietary moralism, where in in fact if one imposed their vegan moralism, malnutrition would be caused, such as in the case of the island dwelling villagers of New Guinea, for example. I'm not sure how 'loving' a vegan moralist could be in that situation. Maybe the 'loving' of animals would also be the malnutrition of infants. Seems to me that the shallow ideals of spiritualism don't actually reflect the real lived circumstances of life.

To me the issue isn't really so much within the killing of wild animals for the sake of sustenance, but the massive scale cruelty to livestock during their lives.

You'd like to use examples of extreme survival, but we weren't talking about this were we?

In daily life and especially for those of us privileged enough to have nothing better to do that surf on the Internet and live with sufficiency, a protein balanced based diet without meat is possible. Dietary wise it is also more than sufficient.

I don't dictate want people should or shouldn't do, but if you have no issues with diet based morality you'd see no issue I presume with someone wanting to consume humans ordinarily.

As consumers have choices I think we should exercise our power in the market place. Corporations are purely profit driven so it stands to say that we also have some responsibilities.

To say that humans need to consume meat is also factually incorrect. Fwiw.

Blessings,
Floatsy

[MaryMagdaQueenofQueens]

Not to mention the fact that the whole malnutrition spill is totally false when living in a modern society at least. We only need 5 to 8% of protein a day, and guess what, most greens have that in them.

[Floatsy]

Nuts and legumes and pulses are also very good. Yes the money based system is quite corrupted.