Dzogchen. a way to reconcile the appearance of two

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by Ewwerrin

Before finding and after finding is also a duality.

In which case how can you have been searching for non-duality for decades?

Finding is the cessation of duality.

Peace

Originally Posted by Ewwerrin

I don't love duality, never have. Been searching for non-duality for decades.

The seeker is always that which is sought, while you have to get out of your own way. What you're seeking isn't non-Duality, it's a ceasing of creating brainstorms.

If you're looking for non-Duality you're not looking for non-Duality, what you're looking for is an 'invented thing'.

Originally Posted by iamthat

Finding is the cessation of duality.

If you've found non-Duality you haven't found non-Duality, you've found an 'object' of your consciousness.

[Ewwerrin]

Originally Posted by iamthat

In which...
Peace

Cause I haven't found it yet.

Originally Posted by Ewwerrin

Cause I haven't found it yet.

That's why you haven't found it.

[Ewwerrin]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

That's why you haven't found it.

Are you saying that consciousness is non-dual?

[movingalways]

Originally Posted by Ewwerrin

I don't love duality, never have. Been searching for non-duality for decades.

Perhaps it will help to realize the truth that no form stands alone, that within every form is the presence of all forms. The simplest way to realize this is that because no form would be without the sun and the water and the air and the soil that these four things are present in everything you see, hear, taste, smell and touch. This is why on the level of understanding how things ARE, there cannot be a single duality. Sure, on the level of mental conceptualization you can separate the sun from the soil and compare their differences but you cannot do this not in the level of understanding that nothing is separate from anything else, you included.

Many moons ago I had two insights that changed my understanding completely about my true nature. The first was that everything I was aware of had to be present in some way or form as the big bang was 'happening'. This was my first nondual insight.

The second nondual insight happened while I was sitting on the toilet in a cubicle in the restroom of the community centre where my daughter was taking a pottery class. Suddenly I focused on a single cinder block and became aware of all that was present in its formation - the four natural elements, the decision to build the community centre, the physical labour that was expended to bring the building to fruition and last but not least my awareness of all these things.There was no duality in that insight, none whatsoever! As stated above, you could mentally pluck out one of the forms from the others, for example the decision to build the community centre so as to contrast it with the thought of deciding not to build the community centre to 'prove' duality but mental concept are not WHAT you ARE.

If you sincerely desire nondual realization, you must practice being without thought. This is not easy, especially for one who has been seeking for decades, but this is what must happen. At first being without thought is scary, but soon the unified (nondual) presence of everyrhing you are aware of becomes like a good friend and you look forward to leaving your thoughts behind and 'just being'.

Eventually you will not need to practice what some call meditation and you will come to understand completely the truth that form is interdependent, therefore cannot be separated, therefore cannot be dual to each other.

[Miss Hepburn]

Yes, as movingalways said: Be still.

Originally Posted by Ewwerrin

Are you saying that consciousness is non-dual?

The differentiated consciousness of the ego/Ahamkara is Duality, the undifferentiated consciousness of the self/Atman is non-Dual. We need both, by the way. And that is a good place to start at least.

As Alan Watts says, "We thingify things" in the way you and a few others make a 'thing' of non-Duality. For you, non-Duality is a 'thing' that is external to you because as you said, you haven't found it.

Here's the ultimate whammy. The ego/Ahamkara - 'I' - creates Duality but there is no 'I' to create Duality, and therefore no 'I' to make a difference between Duality and non-Duality. To the self/Atman being undifferentiated consciousness there is no Duality and therefore no non-Duality. There is just consciousness.

Non-Duality is not a 'thing', non-Duality is the finger pointing at the moon.

When you realise that 'I' is not a 'thing', Duality is not a 'thing' and non-Duality is not a 'thing', there are no such 'things' as 'I', Duality and non-Duality.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...06D6&FORM=VIRE

Remember Isness? That's all there is until your mind lights up like a fireworks party.

“I tell you the truth, any object you have in your mind, however good, will be a barrier between you and the inmost Truth.”
― Meister Eckhart

“Isness is God.”
― Meister Eckhart

[Ewwerrin]

@movingalways
Thank you for nice response. I love it when people give me a big response. This is the best response I've gotten in a long while! I knew something was good about you. I just coulden't explain it yet. Really thanks.

Here is my reply, if you wish to reply back, I would love hear more from you.

Originally Posted by movingalways

Perhaps it will help to realize the truth that no form stands alone, that within every form is the presence of all forms.

The all and the one, and the relativity between them, is the essence of maybe all duality. But how come this functions in cycles of time and timelessness?

Originally Posted by movingalways

This is why on the level of understanding how things ARE, there cannot be a single duality.

Here you seperate the level of understanding from the level of not understanding. Which is a duality.

Originally Posted by movingalways

The first was that everything I was aware of had to be present in some way or form as the big bang was 'happening'. This was my first nondual insight.

"was happening" and "first realisation" implies that there is a before and after. Which is a dualistic realisation.

Originally Posted by movingalways

but mental concept are not WHAT you ARE.

I agree, and I do care about finding out who I am.
I prefer to talk about consciousness as I think it is a promising subject.
But so far no one has replied to my topic yet. Hopefully soon. Please feel welcome to add a reply:
Is consciousness non-dual?
https://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/s...d.php?t=144364

Originally Posted by movingalways

If you sincerely desire nondual realization, you must practice being without thought. This is not easy, especially for one who has been seeking for decades,

Why do you seperate seeking and meditating in no thought?

Originally Posted by movingalways

At first being without thought is scary,

Why is being without thought scary?

Originally Posted by movingalways

but soon the unified (nondual) presence of everyrhing you are aware of becomes like a good friend and you look forward to leaving your thoughts behind and 'just being'.

That does sound nice, but there is still a before and after duality.

Originally Posted by movingalways

Eventually you will not need to practice what some call meditation and you will come to understand completely the truth that form is interdependent, therefore cannot be separated, therefore cannot be dual to each other.

Is that a temporary understanding that comes and goes? Like the before and after duality?