The Big Bang... From God's Perspective.

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by bartholomew

If you don't mind I'll answer this one in a PM later today.

Thanks. I look forward to it.

Peace

[Miss Hepburn]

This is now my favorite thread.

[Still_Waters]

QUOTE 1 EXCERPT:

Originally Posted by bartholomew

The lower spiritual worlds, those places which we commonly call heavens, did not exist prior to the great creative impulse. They, like the physical worlds, are bound in time.

It is to these that we return to after physical death. It is from these that we later return to Earth for another life.

Based on my meditative revelations over a period of many years as well as extensive discussions with my own spiritual mentor on the subject, I am hoping that we can delve more deeply into what takes place after physical death.

Before proceeding, however, it seems relevant to mention that my mind-boggling, life-transforming near death experience many years ago served as a catalyst towards investigating the process of physical death. (Your statements on NDEs are consistent with my direct experience, so there's no need to elaborate further on that.) In addition, years ago, I had a long one-on-one dialogue with a Tibetan monk who lectured/wrote about watching his master raise a monk from the dead to guide him properly through the bardos (death transitions). The monk was Sogyal Rimpoche and his book is the Tibetan Book of Living and Dying.

My understanding is that there are multiple levels of existence ("time within time within time" as described eloquently in cryptic stories in the Yoga Vashistha, a Hindu classic.) I was very aware that my teacher could easily navigate this "level" (for lack of a better word) as in the "remote viewing" references in your post. Such psychic phenomenon are not uncommon. During my meditative discussions with her, she mentioned that she was not yet firmly established in the "next level". Everything that you've mentioned thus far is consistent with my understanding of "this level".

Since one of the posters mentioned theosophy, it might be appropriate to mention theosophist Charles Leadbeater who also mentioned many "parallel" planes of existences. My teacher had been a member of the Theosophical Society before becoming a Mahamandeleshvara in the monastic orders of Shankara so I am very familiar with the Theosophical Society lineage. Therefore, it's good to introduce Theosophy here as well since my teacher's guru was Master Morai of the Theosophical tradition.

My questions do not relate to navigating "this level" since you have so aptly described it. Your points on the "heavens" being temporary resonate well with me and even Jesus is quoted as saying that "heaven and earth shall pass away". However, I am wondering if you have anything to share regarding other levels and "time within time within time ....".


Consistent with my understanding is the following written by Ramana Maharshi is his concise classic, "Truth Revealed". He wrote: "Questions regarding the nature of Liberation can arise only so long as there is INDIVIDUALITY. Dissolution of this individuality is alone true Liberation eternally attained". Ramana recommended various techniques, which I have found useful, in proceeding to unitary consciousness and the dissolution of this individuality. Accordingly, regarding reincarnation, Ramana said that "the reincarnating ego is of the lower planes" and "that's what they teach the masses in the temple".

Hence, I am hoping that we can address the various "levels"/"planes" here beyond the level which you have so aptly addressed.

[Still_Waters]

QUOTE 5 EXCERPT:

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

So well said!!! I know, no magic, no miracles...things can be SO explained, yes!
[/color]I'm halfway through.
Still Waters! Welcome back

Well said --- "no magic,no miracles ... things can be SO explained, yes".

Thanks for the Welcome !

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

Since one of the posters mentioned theosophy, it might be appropriate to mention theosophist Charles Leadbeater who also mentioned many "parallel" planes of existences.

Leadbeater (1854-1934) was an interesting character who wrote many books based on his supposed clairvoyant abilities while claiming to be in close contact with the Theosophical Masters. In the early 1900s he was very influential in the Theosophical Society through his close association with then president Annie Besant. Unfortunately this was also a time when there was a lot of nonsense in the Theosophical Society based around the Masters and which members were close to them, much of it originating from the clairvoyant readings of Leadbeater.

Having said that, in 1909 he did notice an unprepossessing fourteen-year-old boy on a beach in India and declare that this boy would be a world teacher. So he and Annie Besant took charge of this boy and eventually sent him to England. The boy was Jiddu Krishnamurti.

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

Accordingly, regarding reincarnation, Ramana said that "the reincarnating ego is of the lower planes"... Hence, I am hoping that we can address the various "levels"/"planes" here beyond the level which you have so aptly addressed."

The Ancient Wisdom teaches that there are seven systemic planes within the overall physical vehicle we call the Earth. Each systemic plane has seven sub-planes.

1. The Divine plane, the plane of Divine Will.
2. The Monadic plane - where the Monad, our true Being, is found.
3. The Atmic plane - little can be said about this plane.
4. The Buddhic plane - here Buddhi refers to spiritual intuition which gives direct knowledge.
5. The Mental plane - divided into the higher three sub-planes of abstract mind and the lower four sub-planes of concrete mind.
6. The Astral plane - also the emotional plane.
7. The Physical plane - divided into the higher four etheric sub-planes and the lower three dense physical sub-planes.

The Monad expresses as individualised consciousness on the planes of Atma, Buddhi and Higher Mind. This individualised consciousness is also called the Soul or the spiritual Ego. The vehicle of the Soul on the lower planes is the Causal body, found on the higher mental sub-planes.

The Buddhic plane and above is considered as formless, the Mental plane and below is considered as form.

All reincarnation is driven by the Soul from the Causal body, which extends the personality into the worlds of form. The personality consists of the lower mind, the emotions and the etheric (energy) and dense physical vehicles.

The evolutionary purpose of reincarnation is the development of the Causal body and the eventual building of a bridge of consciousness between the incarnated personality and the Buddhic plane. This bridge of consciousness is called the antahkarana.

Until the antahkarana is built we remain oblivious to the Buddhic plane and beyond. When the antahkarana is built then we begin to function consciously on the Buddhic plane. The Buddhic plane is regarded as the lowest plane of unity.

So when someone experiences a state of oneness with everything then they are having a glimpse of Buddhic consciousness. This state of oneness becomes permanent when consciousness is established on the Buddhic plane. But we still need to develop Atmic consciousness and finally Monadic consciousness. These are the higher spiritual initiations.

So says the Ancient Wisdom.

Peace

[bartholomew]

This post is intended to answer Still Waters post 13.

Based on my meditative revelations over a period of many years as well as extensive discussions with my own spiritual mentor on the subject, I am hoping that we can delve more deeply into what takes place after physical death. Briefly, we pop out into our ethereal doubles where we stay for a time. Now we look around us and everything seems normal, as it was except that colors and sounds are enhanced and we find that we can move about by just thinking the thought. If we were blind or lame before we no longer are. We are whole.

Here is is that we are, still very close to the denser physical just below us. We can watch and approach friends and family to let them know we’re OK, all is well. Sometimes they feel our presence. Many times we wait to watch our funerals. Curiosity or a sense of closure it may be. Now we are ready to leave. At this moment others who preceded us, knowing of our passing, approach us with greetings. This complete we ascend again to the next heaven. Here we are afforded the opportunity for a cleansing of the Earth’s experiences. Here we examine our lives just past. We judge ourselves. Deceit is not possible now. We are above such things. And we ascend again… through the astral plane about half way through the sub divisions and into the lower part of the mental. Then rising a bit more we find our heavenly home. Here our companions await us. Now the work begins. But that is a different story.

I want to go back to the first statement. We pop out into the lowest heaven, just above the dense physical. When a person dies in a fit of anger or hatred or because of suicide or because of drug induced confusion, he or she will almost always find themselves trapped here. Now lets speak of hell.

As we said before the physical Earth is surrounded by concentric shells of less physical and spiritual matter. These start at the very center of the Earth. This is no secret to mystics and early religious teachers knew it too though they phrased it differently. This is the reason a Christian will sometimes speak of descending into hell, fire and brimstone and so on. The center of the Earth is just like that with it’s molten cores. So… the idea of someone descending into hell is, in a sense, correct. Now let’s return.

Sometimes a person whose live was an exercise in evil will find themselves, after physical death, staying right here close to everything they coveted. They will often seek to extend their lives by approaching others who are susceptible. They seek these folks out and if they find one that is sufficiently receptive they approach and attempt to connect via their auras in the lower components usually.

The above statement is the basis of what some call possession. We will hear “an evil spirit or a demon or Satan himself” has trapped us. The reality is that is is just another human being but one who is distorted in death. One who seeks desperately to continue living vicariously through another who is weak and easily captured. And of all the human emotions sex is among the most powerful so… we find among these unfortunates much sexual deviancy.

Those who drink too much or use harmful drugs seeking the lower plane vibrations for pleasure are wide open to these others who want, so desperately, to join them.

The above is not for anyone who views such things in fearful ways. Indeed it is fear that allows such things to happen. It is why I say openly “I have no fear of Satan. I respect his power but I scorn him knowing that rising above his realm of influence is possible. The master soul, the adept, he or she who begins to truly understand, fears these things not. They know of them and they also know that the powers of darkness cannot raise above their own domains. No dark lodge member can enter the lodge of the Light (bearers).

Just below this section is an account of a service that Tibetan Buddhists practice. You may find it of interest.

Read the above with caution.

At this point the soul has returned home. He or she is now the sum total of all the previous lifetimes, not just of the last one. They see themselves as they truly are. Others in their group likewise. Among them no falsehoods, no attempts at image building, no deceits are possible. Here we are true to each other and visible. About this there is too much to be stated in this post. It would require a new thread.


Before proceeding, however, it seems relevant to mention that my mind-boggling, life-transforming near death experience many years ago served as a catalyst towards investigating the process of physical death. (Your statements on NDEs are consistent with my direct experience, so there's no need to elaborate further on that.) In addition, years ago, I had a long one-on-one dialogue with a Tibetan monk who lectured/wrote about watching his master raise a monk from the dead to guide him properly through the bardos (death transitions). The monk was Sogyal Rimpoche and his book is the Tibetan Book of Living and Dying. This reminds me of the special service found in Tibetan Buddhism. Usually held at midnight it is a call to those spirits who wander in confusion after physical death. They are called to the group, the assemblage of caring monks, and consoled. “Remove from your lower forms the confusion. Hear our call. Come to us and watch as we point the way for you”.

Why, we may wonder, is such an effort made? More on this question later.

My understanding is that there are multiple levels of existence ("time within time within time" as described eloquently in cryptic stories in the Yoga Vashistha, a Hindu classic.) I was very aware that my teacher could easily navigate this "level" (for lack of a better word) as in the "remote viewing" references in your post. Such psychic phenomenon are not uncommon. During my meditative discussions with her, she mentioned that she was not yet firmly established in the "next level". Everything that you've mentioned thus far is consistent with my understanding of "this level". Yes. In our physical lives we normally fail to realize that we have not left the heavens from which we came. No. We are still connected to them often in such vibrant, colorful ways. Yet we may not know.

I will ask Bartholomew about this and try to say more in a separate thread or post.

Since one of the posters mentioned theosophy, it might be appropriate to mention theosophist Charles Leadbeater who also mentioned many "parallel" planes of existences. My teacher had been a member of the Theosophical Society before becoming a Mahamandeleshvara in the monastic orders of Shankara so I am very familiar with the Theosophical Society lineage. Therefore, it's good to introduce Theosophy here as well since my teacher's guru was Master Morai of the Theosophical tradition.

My questions do not relate to navigating "this level" since you have so aptly described it. Your points on the "heavens" being temporary resonate well with me and even Jesus is quoted as saying that "heaven and earth shall pass away". However, I am wondering if you have anything to share regarding other levels and "time within time within time ....". It is most difficult to only briefly answer a question. The inclination, especially for a wordy (ha ha) person like me is to get carried away at the least of opportunities. Yet in this case an easy, short answer presents itself.

Time within time within time… Corresponds to plane within plane within plane…

There are seven divisions in the Earth system. Within these are seven subdivisions. For example we have in the physical, solids, liquids and gases. The remaining four are called, by mystics, the ethereal. These total seven in all. They are all very closely related. And in each we find time “flowing” at a different rate. The higher the plane the slower the rate of time.

In the dense physical time does flow quicker too but the difference is so very slight that is is almost never noticed. Better in this case to use the analogy of sound. As the density of the medium lessens sound slows until, in space, sound is not possible.

In the subtle (spiritual) worlds as the density of the medium lessens time slows until, in the lofty realm of the Father we are timeless.

How many times have we heard the question: “If we have free will how can it be that God already knows how we will choose?” The answer is easy but our minds do not easily allow it. We do have free will but we live in a world bound by time. God does not. God is timeless. To God there is no past or future but only the present. In the mind of God every moment in the history of the universe and all that is in it including our lives, is in the “now”. This is the answer which is so very difficult for our minds to grasp. But our minds, after all, are also created and thus bound in time.


Consistent with my understanding is the following written by Ramana Maharshi is his concise classic, "Truth Revealed". He wrote: "Questions regarding the nature of Liberation can arise only so long as there is INDIVIDUALITY. Dissolution of this individuality is alone true Liberation eternally attained". Ramana recommended various techniques, which I have found useful, in proceeding to unitary consciousness and the dissolution of this individuality. Accordingly, regarding reincarnation, Ramana said that "the reincarnating ego is of the lower planes" and "that's what they teach the masses in the temple".

Hence, I am hoping that we can address the various "levels"/"planes" here beyond the level which you have so aptly addressed. It is not deemed useful to go too deeply into this subject. Suffice to say the following:

We, each of us, are individuals. This is most evident here on the physical plane. But… we have close friends and family too so maybe it is not absolute.

When we revert upwards to the natural home of the souls (which are bound to the Earth) we find that we are less individual and more group aligned. We retain our identities expressed as sets of vibrations in a certain part of the mental plane matter but we find that we are described strictly in groups of kindred souls. The group is made up of individuals of like position in growth. We work thus sharing and helping. One in each group, sometimes two, assume the role of guides to the others because they are a bit further along. So this is the transition one might say between the individuality of the dense physical and the life of souls on their own plane. The highest of the Earth’s planes where this effect is to be found is the Buddhic. This, the land of the golden light as it is sometimes known, is an area, a realm wherein the mysteries of Earth, those questions that so confound us, are known. Here the work is focused on the next series of advancements but certain decisions are also presented. Now here is where it gets a little complex.

We struggle for many lifetimes during the long cycle of incarnations. Work, work, work… We gain wisdom through being exposed to all the variables available to us on Earth. Al the body types, races, life situations and so on. From each we learn and progress. As we achieve our position is indicated in the ethereal matter which surrounds us. We call these auras. We thus find the crown of the beginner to be minimal while that of the master clearly has almost all of the petals open centered by the rising through, signifying minimal impediments, of what we call the antahkarana, the bridge to the Light. Sometimes the metaphor of the rising dragon is used in the East to indicate the same thing. It is good to study auras more because there is so much to learn about human relations contained within them.

But returning to the topic now we find that, finally, after all those long centuries or thousands of years for some, we arrive at the moment when we are presented with new paths. Some call this “the point of decision”. But simply stated this is that plateau upon which doors are presented to groups of souls. Note I say “groups” because when we arrive here we no long identify as individuals. We now decide, in general, what we will do. The simplified choices are to stay in service to humanity under the head of the planetary hierarchy (the so called Christ) or shall we leave the Earth system altogether and see new adventures in growth?

From this point onward we do not lose our individuality because we remain, after all, in the created lower spiritual worlds, but we set aside our lower individuality replacing it with a new kind. We now identify as a group of souls but unlike before we do not see ourselves as members of a group. Rather the new “I” is one which is greatly expanded. The new “exalted” individuality may choose it’s next path. Some stay in service. In the Earth’s Buddhic plane these will be found, working in meditation deep…. Concerned with matters of mankind below. Or… those newly formed groups who chose other paths may go elsewhere in our solar system for new challenges If we were to visit the (so called) sacred planet, Saturn, we might meet some of these.

About these other paths there is too much for this topic. Suffice to say a study of the law of correspondences will reveal the spiritual nature of our solar system as a singular entity, crowned by the Solar Logos in whose body of manifestation we have our existence. Yes…. For mankind on Earth the great one, the king, the God that we revere is this entity, revealed to us by the physical sun. It is a bold statement to make but the God of Abraham is the same God of the ancients, those who looked upward at noon and saw their source.

This, from the standpoint of the Earth, can rightly be called “liberation (of individuality)” For a human being, trapped as we are in these bodies, to look too high and too far away is seldom successful. This is one reason we have such things as religions, priests, preachers, monks, holy men and women and so on in our societies. From them the ordinary person has clues to what awaits. The fact of so many differing cultural descriptions of the same things is inconsequential. Reality is reality.

I did not mean to digress so much. Yes, we leave our individuality behind but this, in stages, not all at once. Now, a little of what awaits us all has been told of.

[bartholomew]

Originally Posted by iamthat

The Ancient Wisdom teaches that there are seven systemic planes within the overall physical vehicle we call the Earth. Each systemic plane has seven sub-planes.[list=1][*]The Divine plane, the plane of Divine Will.[*]The Monadic plane - where the Monad, our true Being, is found.[*]The Atmic plane - little can be said about this plane.[*]The Buddhic plane - here Buddhi refers to spiritual intuition which gives direct knowledge.[*]The Mental plane - divided into the higher three sub-planes of abstract mind and the lower four sub-planes of concrete mind.[*]The Astral plane - also the emotional plane.[*]The Physical plane - divided into the higher four etheric sub-planes and the lower three dense physical sub-planes.

For practical purposes I speak only of the lower four of these with the exception that the Atmic is mentioned in my stories on a different thread.

Buddhic... direct knowledge... This is a most profound statement. We, each of us, has the ability to know everything that is available to know. We are not limited at all. This is our potential. But then the critics will dispute this saying well if that's true then how can I be rich or some other question? The answer? It is hidden temporarily beyond our reach and for good reason. The business of the world is teaching, not simply gaining temporal advantage. But this, you know as well as I.

As time passes and as we prove ourselves we are allowed access. Not before. This also, you know as well as I.

Mental, Astral, Ethereal... These are the day to day of our lives. As we finally arrive at a point whereat we begin to understand this we are ready for the next step.

If you don't mind let me address the higher planes that you tabulate by referring us all, again, to the law of correspondences. Thus far we speak of the Earth System. We come to realize that the higher planes are there... but above our reach normally, except in theory taught to the aspirant in order to develop her or his mind.

Now consider this. The Solar System is constructed in much the same way as is our Earth. We have the Earth system within the solar System. Now look at this from a spiritual standpoint and see that there are similarities.

Those planes which seem to us to be so far away are not when we consider the solar system as a spiritual system. To better understand this consider... what is the higher correspondence to emotion, to mind, to the Buddhic? These and more are revealed to us as we ascend and merge with the Star. But this occurs after we are released from this world.

Sorry for the vague approach to this topic but it is all available to the student who searches for Dwaj Kuhl. This is the master soul whose assignment it is to teach. I am but an imperfect student.

Those three highest planes, markers that lead to them, are included in the Earth scheme in order that the advanced disciple (I am not one of these) will have some degree of access while yet in the body.

Here is a hint. Those who, while yet in the physical, have earned access to Saturn will also find available to them the further realities of our solar system. But we, myself included, do not yet have this. Our work is with the lower planes. Let us master them before moving on.

Originally Posted by iamthat

The Monad expresses as individualised consciousness on the planes of Atma, Buddhi and Higher Mind. This individualised consciousness is also called the Soul or the spiritual Ego. The vehicle of the Soul on the lower planes is the Causal body, found on the higher mental sub-planes.

The Buddhic plane and above is considered as formless, the Mental plane and below is considered as form.

All reincarnation is driven by the Soul from the Causal body, which extends the personality into the worlds of form. The personality consists of the lower mind, the emotions and the etheric (energy) and dense physical vehicles.

The evolutionary purpose of reincarnation is the development of the Causal body and the eventual building of a bridge of consciousness between the incarnated personality and the Buddhic plane. This bridge of consciousness is called the antahkarana.

Until the antahkarana is built we remain oblivious to the Buddhic plane and beyond. When the antahkarana is built then we begin to function consciously on the Buddhic plane. The Buddhic plane is regarded as the lowest plane of unity.

Yes. This is most important point to remember. We prove ourselves first and then we are allow access. Through long struggle, failures and successes, we finally arrive at the door to initiation.

The Buddhic. Yes the Buddhic. If we can aspire no higher then we are properly aligned. But even this lofty place is a product of the creation and so it does have form. Form which will be destroyed at the right time. But then we will have joined with the solar Father to begin work in new areas, new concerns. Within these will be the karmic adjustments of our various planets. Here is an area of work that is seldom mentioned.

No more can be said now.

Blessings to us all,

Bartholomew


Peace[/quote]

[Guillaume]

Originally Posted by bartholomew

Within these will be the karmic adjustments of our various planets. Here is an area of work that is seldom mentioned.

Thank you very much for your text, it's very interesting.

Would you know anything about the dwarf planets? Some hold a very contemporary / recent energy, like maximum 100 years.
Are they like grains of sand in the cogs? The manifestation of the creation of modern "gods"?

[Still_Waters]

QUOTE 15 EXCERPT:

Originally Posted by iamthat

The boy was Jiddu Krishnamurti.
The Ancient Wisdom teaches that there are seven systemic planes within the overall physical vehicle we call the Earth.
All reincarnation is driven by the Soul from the Causal body, which extends the personality into the worlds of form.

I am very familiar with Jiddu Krishnamurti and still have at least one of his books. My spiritual mentor personally knew Krishnamurti and other Theosophical Society personages; we discussed those personages as well as Theosophy at various times. As you pointed out, there were some potential issues with Theosophy and I never became a member of the Theosophical Society even though they had a very convenient meeting place in New York City as did the Rudolf Steiner group which I also investigated at one point.

I am also very familiar with the various systemic planes which, despite some variations in the various wisdom traditions, are fairly consistent with what you wrote. In addition, the Vedic and other wisdom-oriented literature describe the pancha-kosha (the five sheaths) and the three bodies of man including the causal body which is metaphorically the driving force behind reincarnation, as you duly noted.


Regarding the "seven systemic planes within the overall physical vehicle we call the Earth", my understanding is fairly consistent with yours.

The focal point of my question, however, goes beyond the "level" of the "overall physical vehicle we call the earth". The question is whether this whole vehicle that has just been described is nested in yet another more subtle vehicle and so on and so on.

In his book, Journey of Souls, where numerous individuals are regressed to a point before physical birth, the author Michael Newton empirically raises the question that the "Divine Will" (as you call it) of one vehicle may be nested in yet another vehicle ... and possibly even another vehicle beyond that.

[bartholomew]

Originally Posted by Guillaume

Thank you very much for your text, it's very interesting.
Would you know anything about the dwarf planets? Some hold a very contemporary / recent energy, like maximum 100 years.
Are they like grains of sand in the cogs? The manifestation of the creation of modern "gods"?

They, like all the other small bodies in the Earth system, are products of the usual creative/destructive cycles which are common and necessary in the universe. we do use the word chaos and for good reason.

I can say more though about some of these.

It has been revealed that some of those who, after the final ascension from the Earth plane, will choose to leave the Earth but to remain in our solar system where work regarding the management of lower ethereal forms is available to them. This is essential.

It is not easy for he or she who has lived within the boundaries of an Earth culture to understand but our destiny includes the ability to guide lower forms such as these that you mention. A group of post masters will have at their disposal those worker spirits who respond to their will in ways which cause changes in these celestial bodies.

If an astronomer were to look in the direction of one such dwarf planet, perhaps in the Kuiper belt, she or he might detect the beginnings of an atmosphere for instance. Or... one might watch as, because of gravitational influences, surface features might change. It is not certain of course but it is possible that these supposed anomalies result form the work of a group of great ones who, in training for later assignments, are active while yet in our system.

Just because we ascend to the point of leaving the long cycle does not mean all has been achieved. Our destiny is to become God like after all.

The above is fantastic. It is not something that would be received even by the most liberal of scientific minds. Yet.... it is true.

There is another thing to consider. We, those who have achieved, will join with others, those from other worlds, who are at like levels of attainment. Together we will explore and study. Our galaxy belongs to us. It is ours to know. Why? Because in the distant future a new assemblage of stars will form Who will guide them if not us? And later will those physical forms that inhabit this world wonder and call us "gods"?

The difficulty we face is this. We are charged with an immediate goal which relates to the life of our system; finding our place in it. As we travel the roads high in the skies we notice other areas of interest. To delay our principal effort for a time is OK. We sense that in this case such a diversion is present.

A question deserves an answer.

Blessings from James/Bartholomew