Anattā (no self)

Originally Posted by Rain95

Even something like "taking the attention off of the chatter," can be ego involved as the doer. Somebody can even be like, "I am thinking too much and stressed out, I'm going to watch a basketball game and relax," verses a Zen monk who realizes they are focusing on and "in" thought so they focus and drop the association. They become present and empty. Not focusing on, or filtering through, thought and thinking. Direct non-conceptual perception.

And that is just a taste..

JL

Originally Posted by Rain95

Really I have the sense what is going on is not complex at all, the complexity comes about due to the assertions and goals, desires, and assumptions of the individuals involved in the discussions.
.

It is simple to my mind too - you are trying to explain something to someone who can't understand it, hasn't tasted it, doesn't even understand the intellectual framework ("Buddhist philosophy") within which you are conversing - let alone the practical aspects. (which would be the interesting part if your dance partner had some experience here)

As I said in one of my very first posts here, it's effectively a dead end, and like watching a snake chase its own tail. And then on top of this, you have the individual thinking that they are the only person who "gets it", when it's eminently clear that he doesn't nor has explored the real Buddhist teachings or context. (To my mind, that's the most impolite aspect of this whole scenario - like me running into a Jewish temple and challenging everyone else with obviously a lack of understanding of even the basics of Judaism - God bless the temples and monasteries and what they might have to put up with!).

By the way, I think God-Like genuinely believes what he is saying and genuinely has a plate full of self-confidence (of course), so here you are looking at someone who is completely in faith with themselves (Like born again Christians who have that added fervor) - this usually means their attitude has another dimension, as their belief in their own "truth" supersedes anyone else's - and that adds that further dimension here.

So I commend your efforts And even interest in engaging in a situation like this.

It's like when nice Jehovah's Witnesses come to my door - I say thank you, smile, and politely but very firmly decline the invitation. I have other interests which are more meaningful to my mind and interests.

May I ask how you learnt and practiced Buddhism, Rain95?

JL

God-Like, I'm sorry for your loss. Take care of yourself. I am aware that in Buddhism there is a phrase "feel the pain, let it abide, let it pass". Bless.

JL

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by janielee

By the way, I think God-Like genuinely believes what he is saying and genuinely has a plate full of self-confidence (of course), so here you are looking at someone who is completely in faith with themselves (Like born again Christians who have that added fervor) - this usually means their attitude has another dimension, as their belief in their own "truth" supersedes anyone else's - and that adds that further dimension here.

When you realise what you are, why would there be any doubt?

What I speak of is with conviction and I am confident in such matters..

Do you hear ramana, niz, buddha, Tolle, Meher baba speak without conviction, and speak from a place of doubt?

When I speak about there is only what you are then yes, I am afraid that supersedes anyone who says the opposite ..

I am not going to dress it up any other way, to do so would negate what was realised..


x daz x

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by janielee

God-Like, I'm sorry for your loss. Take care of yourself. I am aware that in Buddhism there is a phrase "feel the pain, let it abide, let it pass". Bless.

JL

That's kind of you to say thank you ..

I am going on a healing retreat for a week tomorrow, something that I am deeply involved in so I will appreciate all the energies there ..

In saying that I won't be able to reply to any further posts for a week ..

great relief for some I would imagine



x daz x

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by Gem

I think what happens is people get an inkling that the questions have another motive besides being a genuine inquiry, but you see, where the intent to teach motivates the style of questioning, the person who is impelled to answer is being pushed into a 'student position'. People generally are not willing to relate within a teacher/student status quo. Hence, people become apprehensive to avoid the nature of the relation being subliminally asserted on them.

Maybe, but this relates to what I spoke about regarding other peoples reflections..

If someone asks me a simple question I will answer it sincerely and honestly..

If the question I ask is straightforward like what else is there other than what you are, then for someone to clam up or deflect or ignore it completely, says more about them than me ..



x daz x

Originally Posted by God-Like

When you realise what you are, why would there be any doubt?

What I speak of is with conviction and I am confident in such matters..

Do you hear ramana, niz, buddha, Tolle, Meher baba speak without conviction, and speak from a place of doubt?

When I speak about there is only what you are then yes, I am afraid that supersedes anyone who says the opposite ..

I am not going to dress it up any other way, to do so would negate what was realised..


x daz x

LOL

Masters are great because they know, they are acknowledged BY others, they do not FORCE acknowledgement.

I am sorry, daz, but we have all (probably here) had profound insights. If I wanted to I could get up on a spiritual high horse too and proclaim my readiness.

Bollocks.

I agree/d with those Masters because of the Truth I see in their words - truth validated through my own Beingness, experiences, insights, validity of which is more than enough.

You, I do not really care (as in mind) what experiences you've had. All goodness to you.

But please don't think you are some high and mighty teacher here, when you have not even understood what you are "Debating" here and negate the teachings of the Greats - teachings that are valid.

Blessings, I am done with your game though.

JL

PS This does not negate your insights - it's your Life, our Life, live it as you will, but don't expect agreement - not because "no-one else knows" but because we're not even on the same page as it relates to any understanding (AT ALL) you have of anatta.

Buddhism is Buddhism - like all traditions, it has its methods, styles, context and wisdom.

S*** elsewhere if you wish, but don't imagine that you are there.

Originally Posted by God-Like

That's kind of you to say thank you ..

I am going on a healing retreat for a week tomorrow, something that I am deeply involved in so I will appreciate all the energies there ..

Many blessings, and a peaceful recovery to you and All Loved Ones.

Namaste.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by God-Like

Maybe, but this relates to what I spoke about regarding other peoples reflections..

If someone asks me a simple question I will answer it sincerely and honestly..

Sure, because you accept it is a sincere and honest inquiry.

If the question I ask is straightforward like what else is there other than what you are, then for someone to clam up or deflect or ignore it completely, says more about them than me ..

It isn't straightforward - It's loaded with teachy motive - and maybe people don't want to be your pupil boy.

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

Hey there Jonesboy...TBH, I don't resonate at all with the utilitarian way of relating or being as being in any way "the goal" or preferred to the way of equanimity which is centred in lovingkindness. I find it to be, for most, a dangerous misdirection. And I use that word rarely.

And it's this disconnect that so often appears in these conversations that is somewhat troubling. There is a very real difference.

And it is most directly apprehended when we embrace all that we are...which is simply that there is only what we are, and the degree of awareness and clarity and centred presence we bring to it.

In that place of ever-shifting balance between lovingkindness and equanimity in their truest sense.

Where there is no either/or. Where there is only both/and. Both subjectivity and union. Both individuality and non-separation. Both self and One. And where (per Buddha) we realise the emptiness but do not dwell there.

Peace & blessings
7L

Originally Posted by jonesboy

What we are is hidden by issues and fears.
The spiritual path is about finding out moving beyond those obstructions.

Hello Jonesboy,
Yes. And no. What we are is of both obstruction and realisation. It is of both limitation and expansion...the two great forces in our physical reality which mirror the spiritual reality and which incorporate all others. There is another great force in our physical reality which mirrors spiritual reality...the first set of great forces, matter and anti-matter...the coming into being in each moment, and its oppositional force.

Thus, even more foundationally, what we are is being and non-being in the sense of choosing to be (in alignment with what is) or not to be (in alignment with what is). This is the most foundational orientation or choice. And it is the spectrum upon which we must balance the forces of lovingkindness and equanimity for proper (right) alignment toward being (in any sense, including pure consciousness).

So...back to your thoughts. What we are is not obscured any more than what we are is illuminated. Both of these apply and to say we tend more to one than the other is not quite the truth of What Is. That is, we are not wholly or predominately defined by our fears (nor by our illuminations), even if we are in this moment impacted or limited by them (or expanded by them).

Likewise, the spiritual path is not simply to move beyond these obstructions but rather it is equally to own and accept them in lovingkindness and equanimity. Which then allows for an organic transformation that points us to deeper truths. Such as how to be [a person] in the world (Ask Polly ). In the world yet without manipulating, exploiting,or destroying the world. It is about centreing and deepening rather than getting beyond or away from. Ideally there is a recognition and balance of these polarities (so to speak), rather than any presumption that one tendency is or ever should or must be predominant in any one being or community or universe.

I have a feeling what you are referring to as loving kindness is ego based. A deeper view is realizing everyone is within you, perfect, Buddha’s beyond what they are currently caught up in. No judgements because of the clarity you have realized.

Sorry I don't understand your feeling regarding me Jonesboy. Of course, you don't know me so it's natural to hazard guesses or make assumptions. I'll explain a bit more...others may have read this before so apologies to them.

I have often referred to authentic love as lovingkindness from a place of equanimity, where we actively seek and support the highest good of the other(s) equally to ourselves, and the highest good of ourselves equally to other(s). There is no (getting) beyond. There is only a deepening and an expansion, both/and. From centre. I'm not certain why you mention judgment. But on that, we absolutely can call attention to misalignment as it occurs in self and in society (and in the universe, etc) without in any way limiting the growth of consciousness in self and society (and in the universe). That is a bit off to the side. But clearly, we are individuated consciousness, eternal and extant.

With the greatest respect to everyone's beliefs, I see the notion that we merge into the pot of One consciousness as the Buddhist equivalent (which not all believe) of the Christian 1-and-done + afterlife=bliss, except with more lives but then you get to go to the One soup pot and merge=unthinking bliss. Not in keeping with the eternal becoming as I see it, but rather a bit more all-too-human wishful thinking. Again, IMO, the sooner we realise that there is only who and what we are in this moment, the sooner we can centre in the lovingkindness and equanimity we are. The authentic love that we are. The sooner we can see that all eternity, all divinity, all transcendence, is right here and now. And that there is no greater or lesser manifestation of the love That Is or the love We Are. It is not just sure, all is connected, yes, but we are this (lesser) whilst The One is that (greater). That is in fact where I see our human judgment blinds us, and that is in fact what lacks deeper foundational truth.

That is, our temporal physicality is equally of What is and is no lesser than our eternal consciousness. And likwise -- critically -- our individuated consciousness is not lesser than than the One consciousness. Yes, that seems counter-intuitive to some because we are used to our fledgling human hierarchies of scale and power. But there is foundational truth there...that all things are equally of value...and that our worth (so to speak) is beyond measure (the only beyond I resonate with). It is through us (and also through all that is) that One comes to apprehend What Is, just as it is through One that we come to apprehend What Is. So what is it exactly so many of us are trying to escape from or transcend? This moment? Who we truly are?

For myself, I recognise the wisdom of Buddha (per your mention of Buddha) but in so doing, I equally do not hold Buddha's contribution to be superior to that of many others, nor do I limit humanity's journey to what has gone before. It is clear to me that we are only just beginning to realise the depth and breath of our spiritual journey -- and that it will be not at the expense of our unique humanity or our unique individuated consciousness but because of these things.

Peace & blessings
7L