Where is Heaven?

[neil]

Originally Posted by zastrakoza

Hi Neil,

Thank you for posting your perspective. Can you provide some additional clarification on the idea of side by side (simultaneous?) and lightyears away? I am not sure what you mean.

Also I am curious as the origin of the evil influences? Would you expound?

The biblical scriptures were written to the earthlings at the end of a specified age and therefore are limited in many respects (although alluding to much more). And there is an age between us and them. We have access to much more information in accordance with the spiritual evolution of mankind.

Z

Think of you & another person standing side by side but not touching each other. You are within the one & only spiritual universe in the same one & only realm & or dimention of which there is no other..no otber multiple universe or realms or dimentions. There is only one unfathomable massive seemingly never ending spiritual universe.
Now put untold light years between you both, now imagine that one you is Earth & the other of you is the Holy Kingdoms.

Did you know that in "one" light "second", light will travel seven & a half times around the Earth along the equator.
Ie :- Along the equator there are 40,000 km around the earth & light will travel seven & a half times arround the Earth in one second....40,000km.

If you are wondering, there are just about 31,500,000 seconds in a year, and if you multiply this by 186,000 (the distance that light travels each second), you get 5.9 trillion miles (9.4 trillion km)—the distance that light travels in one year.Aug 23, 2015

☆The radius of the observable universe is therefore estimated to be about 46.5 billion light-years.
☆☆and its diameter about 28.5 gigaparsecs (93 billion light-years, 8.8×1026 metres or 2.89×1027 feet).

THE ""OBSERVABLE"" UNIVERSE IS "ONLY" HOW FAR MAKIND CAN SEE THROUGH OUR STRONGEST TELESCOPES.
SO, IF YOU LOOK THROUGH THE STRONGEST EVER TELESCOPE YOU CAN ONLY OBSERVE WITH YOUR EYES FOR AN ESTIMATED 46.5 billion light years. AND THE SIZE OF THE UNIVERSE CAN NOT BE KNOW, BECAUSE OUR TELESCOPES CAN NOT SEE FAR ENOUGH.

I am led to believe that the Heavenly Father Christ entity has it's location in the centre of the universe and the Holy Kingdoms span out on a single land mass, out from the centre & mind of the Heavenly Father Christ entity.
The Holy kingdoms are of an incredible untold size.

For your question of the origins of evil, go to Christianity section..."the problem with evil" and read my post "nbr 280".

[zastrakoza]

I do love me some math! Thank you for your response. I realize how poorly I phrased my question; the response doesn't address what I was trying to understand.

I think I understand the vastness of the universe (meaning I can't really comprehend that either), but I don't understand how the size of it really matters. What I was trying to ask is about the contradiction in your statements. And this is where I get confused.

You said, "All of it..galaxies, spiritual Heavens & the Holy Kingdoms etc are all located within the same one & only singular spiritual realm/universe." and you said, "It is all located side by side, although many untold light years apart. And of course the Holy Kingdoms are not of this world/planet, because the many mansions of the Holy Kingdoms are a location unto itself, elsewhere within the body of the Heavenly Father Christ entity."

This seems to be a contradiction and I was seeking further clarification on it. I am struggling to understand how the kingdom of God can be measured with light years in distance as this seems impossible to me, unless you are speaking figuratively. Since you provide math to emphasize the distance, it would seem not. If a kingdom is spiritual, I fail to see how location factors in or how anything could be beyond it.

I reviewed you post on evil. And if I understand it, you believe that evil is generated from human souls that have released their earthly bodies, but remain behind to torment us. This also indicates a separation that I cannot see at this time.

[neil]

Originally Posted by zastrakoza

I do love me some math! Thank you for your response. I realize how poorly I phrased my question; the response doesn't address what I was trying to understand.

I think I understand the vastness of the universe (meaning I can't really comprehend that either), but I don't understand how the size of it really matters. What I was trying to ask is about the contradiction in your statements. And this is where I get confused.

You said, "All of it..galaxies, spiritual Heavens & the Holy Kingdoms etc are all located within the same one & only singular spiritual realm/universe." and you said, "It is all located side by side, although many untold light years apart. And of course the Holy Kingdoms are not of this world/planet, because the many mansions of the Holy Kingdoms are a location unto itself, elsewhere within the body of the Heavenly Father Christ entity."

This seems to be a contradiction and I was seeking further clarification on it. I am struggling to understand how the kingdom of God can be measured with light years in distance as this seems impossible to me, unless you are speaking figuratively. Since you provide math to emphasize the distance, it would seem not. If a kingdom is spiritual, I fail to see how location factors in or how anything could be beyond it.

I reviewed you post on evil. And if I understand it, you believe that evil is generated from human souls that have released their earthly bodies, but remain behind to torment us. This also indicates a separation that I cannot see at this time.

The holy kingdoms are spiritual, & so is the
Earth spiritual. The Holy kingdoms are made of & from the very same elements as the Holy Kingdoms. However they are simply constructed differently. The Earth is denser & the elements are formed into atoms & so forth. One is organic & physical the other is not.

They are not in seperate realms or dimentions. One is simply less dense than the other. The people of the Holy Kingdoms can travel very very fast across the one single universe and arive at the Earth, & can see the Earth and interact within & of it.
We on the other hand could also travel across the one single universe & arive at the Holy Kingdom, if we knew exactly of its location, however we can not see it in order to know of it's location. but we should be very capable of seeing it, but for one reason only we can not. & there is only one reason why we can not see it, & I am very aware as to why we can not see it, however every time I suggest what that reason is, no one believes me, so i will not mention it again now.

The reason why I brought time & distance into my explanations is because one is just not visible to the other although they are neighbours of & in the very same realm although great amounts of time & distance seperates them apart from each other.

Same with people who are still connected to the fleshly physical body & people who are permanently disconnected/seperated from the physical body.

The physical body connected to the spiritual are on the same plane & in the same realm & universe as each other, only the physical body does not have the nessesary construction to see the spiritual body, although the spiritual can see the physical body. & when we the spiritual Soul'self is fully enmeshed within the flesh there is no time & space nor realm or dimention separating spirit from flesh. However when spiritual seperates from physical by moving out & away from within each other & not being enmeshed any longer, time & space forms between them both, & yet the two are still on the same plane & also in the same realm/dimention/universe.

[davidmartin]

And if I understand it, you believe that evil is generated from human souls that have released their earthly bodies, but remain behind to torment us. This also indicates a separation that I cannot see at this time.

apparently when they go up, they find things are different to what they believed here. if they won't accept that then they cannot ascend. some religious ones all their life believed certain things and are shell shocked when they find out the truth, they turn away. yeah some are evil and occasionally get reborn here for another go. that's one rumour anyway.

[zastrakoza]

Originally Posted by neil

The holy kingdoms are spiritual, & so is the
Earth spiritual. The Holy kingdoms are made of & from the very same elements as the Holy Kingdoms. However they are simply constructed differently. The Earth is denser & the elements are formed into atoms & so forth. One is organic & physical the other is not.

They are not in seperate realms or dimentions. One is simply less dense than the other. The people of the Holy Kingdoms can travel very very fast across the one single universe and arive at the Earth, & can see the Earth and interact within & of it.
We on the other hand could also travel across the one single universe & arive at the Holy Kingdom, if we knew exactly of its location, however we can not see it in order to know of it's location. but we should be very capable of seeing it, but for one reason only we can not. & there is only one reason why we can not see it, & I am very aware as to why we can not see it, however every time I suggest what that reason is, no one believes me, so i will not mention it again now.

The reason why I brought time & distance into my explanations is because one is just not visible to the other although they are neighbours of & in the very same realm although great amounts of time & distance seperates them apart from each other.

Same with people who are still connected to the fleshly physical body & people who are permanently disconnected/seperated from the physical body.

The physical body connected to the spiritual are on the same plane & in the same realm & universe as each other, only the physical body does not have the nessesary construction to see the spiritual body, although the spiritual can see the physical body. & when we the spiritual Soul'self is fully enmeshed within the flesh there is no time & space nor realm or dimention separating spirit from flesh. However when spiritual seperates from physical by moving out & away from within each other & not being enmeshed any longer, time & space forms between them both, & yet the two are still on the same plane & also in the same realm/dimention/universe.

Hi Neil,

We are in agreement on many of these concepts and I and hoping to understand our differences better in order to learn. We agree heaven and earth are in the same realm and this realm is spiritual. We agree on the density of energies and that lower densities are freer from time and space constraints.

However, we diverge on the concept of time and space because to my way of thinking those concepts only apply to the physical perception. They have no part in spiritual understanding. It seems to me that density is a subset of light rather than a different element. For example, a mineral has less light than a vegetable. But if you removed the light from a mineral, it would cease to exist. The denser the element, the more constrained by time and space reality. They don’t command enough light to move themselves.

If the spirit moves away from the physical body then there is no life in the body. Or do you believe that the physical exists outside of the spiritual? I don’t see how this is possible, since all life exists of spirit. On the same point, the earthly kingdom is a subset of the heavenly (rather than side by side) and any separation was healed. For me to see a distinction between a spiritual and physical kingdom, I would have to be blind to the spiritual kingdom and deny my own light.

I believe we disagree on the concept of visibility, but words are severely inadequate to discuss these things, so I am not sure. Nothing is invisible to my way of thinking. Perception (sight) is dependent on awareness. If someone cannot see, it is on the person, not on the reality. To say that the physical cannot see the spiritual would be to deny the spirit that gives sustenance to the physical. Again imho there is no physical life without spirit. But we agree that there are pure light beings without physical bodies. Or at least their bodies are not at the same density as the earthly bodies we carry. These pure light beings can be seen (at their will) and have been seen many times with the human eye.

Further, we are all in the kingdom of heaven, although some may be outside the holy of holies. Words fail us, but the allegory stands there is a throne (high authority) surrounded by holy priests and priestesses (the pure ones). The outer room in the temple houses some, the courtyard, then the city, and even those outside the city walls. If anyone is interested, I can do some research and meditation on this allegory and expound in another thread.

It seems we are in much more agreement than not and I find this conversation enlightening. I look forward to your comments as others who are following this thread.

Z

[Miss Hepburn]

As with everything, I think it is best to ask someone who has been there or experienced it...otherwise it is speculation.

One could read what some Mystics have said, sure.
One could read Near death experiences.
One could read transmissions or messages from those on the Other Side.
Or one could sit in complete, utter stillness for hours and hours and hours a sitting for maybe decades -
and ask that person if they have ever experienced it.

Otherwise it's like this:

-That dentist is really excellent.
Have you been to him?
-No
How do you know then?
-I saw an ad and it had testimonials.

Uh-huh.

[neil]

Originally Posted by zastrakoza

Hi Neil,

We are in agreement on many of these concepts and I and hoping to understand our differences better in order to learn. We agree heaven and earth are in the same realm and this realm is spiritual. We agree on the density of energies and that lower densities are freer from time and space constraints.

However, we diverge on the concept of time and space because to my way of thinking those concepts only apply to the physical perception. They have no part in spiritual understanding. It seems to me that density is a subset of light rather than a different element. For example, a mineral has less light than a vegetable. But if you removed the light from a mineral, it would cease to exist. The denser the element, the more constrained by time and space reality. They don’t command enough light to move themselves.

If the spirit moves away from the physical body then there is no life in the body. Or do you believe that the physical exists outside of the spiritual? I don’t see how this is possible, since all life exists of spirit. On the same point, the earthly kingdom is a subset of the heavenly (rather than side by side) and any separation was healed. For me to see a distinction between a spiritual and physical kingdom, I would have to be blind to the spiritual kingdom and deny my own light.

I believe we disagree on the concept of visibility, but words are severely inadequate to discuss these things, so I am not sure. Nothing is invisible to my way of thinking. Perception (sight) is dependent on awareness. If someone cannot see, it is on the person, not on the reality. To say that the physical cannot see the spiritual would be to deny the spirit that gives sustenance to the physical. Again imho there is no physical life without spirit. But we agree that there are pure light beings without physical bodies. Or at least their bodies are not at the same density as the earthly bodies we carry. These pure light beings can be seen (at their will) and have been seen many times with the human eye.

Further, we are all in the kingdom of heaven, although some may be outside the holy of holies. Words fail us, but the allegory stands there is a throne (high authority) surrounded by holy priests and priestesses (the pure ones). The outer room in the temple houses some, the courtyard, then the city, and even those outside the city walls. If anyone is interested, I can do some research and meditation on this allegory and expound in another thread.

It seems we are in much more agreement than not and I find this conversation enlightening. I look forward to your comments as others who are following this thread.

Z

Persons now without the flesh are the same as we are right this very moment except that they no longer have an organic physical body.

They live in the very same massively huge universe that we live in and in the same realm & dimention as we as spiritual beings do. & our flesh also resides in the same realm/dimention etc.

& as we are restricted/governed by space & time so are they.
Spiritual beings without the flesh, can if they choose, can live within the "non holy" spiritual lands created by the Heavenly father, for any person to live in, therein they can live in harmony with the Fathers laws of love, & progress in Soul qualities & grow more abundant in radiance, beauty & be capable of progressing into locations of increasing love beauty & abundance.

Now, in those lands are beautiful landscapes, homes, buildings, places of art & crafts. Locations for theatre, music & the list goes phenomenally on, BECAUSE they are not governed by physical laws as we are. If they think of something that they want to do, that is not unloving to the environment or any person, then they can create a location, building etc for the activity of their desire, for one or many persons to participate in & or of.

Time & space, they have as a real part of their lives. However they do not need to count or record time. If a person has been informed that an event of any kind is being organized, that one or even thousands of spiritual persons can attend or participate in, & a person makes their desire to attend, be known by the organisers of the event. Then that person will recieve notification from the organizers (mind to mind telepathically) that the event is very soon approaching. And if that person that has a desire to attend, is not involved in a more pressing appointment, then that person can drop everything, no matter where they are at that time, anywhere within the entire spiritual universe of time & spaciousness.

That person maybe billions of light years away from the event that they desire to attend. they can with their mind have a thought of traveling billions of light years across the very spacious spiritual universe, to arrive at the event & on time. & at the instant that their invisible Soul'self speeds of at a phenomenal breakneck speed, the emanation of the spiritual body will vanish & then re emanate in the instant that the invisible Soul'self arrives at the location of the event.

And they have traveled billions of light years across the universe, & depending on the speed of travel, will depend on the amount of passing moments that it takes. All things in the life of a spiritual person without the flesh, involves moments that pass by one moment after the other. & it is exactly the same for you & i. Everything that we do via the flesh, within the one & only spiritual universe, involves, passing moments, exactly the same as it is for those without the flesh.

Everything that they or we choose to do in life ie:- take a stroll or walk or go for a run, paint a picture watch some live thearter etc, it will take pretty much the same time for them as us.

The universe is the same throughout in regards to time & space. People think that the locations of the Earth plane are more dense than say in the spiritual summerlands (lesser heavens) & or the Holy Kingdoms. And this is kinda true. But the empty space outside of any galaxy is the same as any space imediately outside of the spiritual Heavens.
The spiritual Heavens grow increasingly brighter, more radiant, more abundant & more beautiful, the further that a person travels towards the Heavenly Christ entity (The centre).

A person with a soul quality that allows them to traverse inwards to let's say mid way into the third sphere of the spiritual Heavens, will soon find that they will find it increasingly more impossible for them to traverse onwards to the end of the third sphere. & they would definately not be at all capable of passing through the invisible demarcation between the third & fourth sphere...this is why it is said that the gates of Heaven (of which there are none) are so very tall and impossible to scale.

"No thief can steel their way into the Holy Kingdom". BECAUSE their quality of Soul'self is not capable of withstanding the intensities therein.

A very dark minded soul being would not feel comfortable...of mind & soul...if located in the lower areas of the beginning of the first spiritual sphere. They would very soon after attempting to enter find themselves fleeing into the much darker locations of the first spiritual sphere. & in those locations are some very dark & dingy landscapes of dreadful colours without vegetation & or structures to hide within.

The Soul'self is invisible (as is the Heavenly Christ entity invisible). however Soul'self, at the moment of your conception, had been instilled with a blue print, so to speak, of your physical earthly identity. & your invisible Soul'self emanates outward a VISIBLE spiritual body, in the likeness of the physical body. that you can be recognized via, after you have been liberated from the physical.

The INVISIBLE Soul'self and the VISIBLE emanating spiritual body, are less dense than the physical & are fully enmeshed within the your physical body...like water can be absorbed within a sponge.
When we travel "out of body", the Soul'self exits the flesh & remains tethered to the flesh via the silver cord (as it is sometimes refered to as).
& all sentient conscious thinking & reasoning abilities are then no longer of the Brain, untill the Soul'self returns.

The eyes of the physical body can not detect the spiritual.
And all things that physical body detects/experiences of its earthly surroundings. Is delivered to the non sentient, non conscious, non aware, non intelligent brain/processor of the physical body. & the brain/processor, then does only convert all that it receives of the experiences via the flesh, into a content/information that then is instantly delivered from the brain/processor via the silver cord, to you the spiritual invisible Soul'self.

And you the invisible Soul'self instantly responds to the incoming information from the brain, & the response is instantly delivered to & received within your non sentient, non conscious, non aware, non intelligent brain/processor, which then does convert the response from Soul'self, & instantly delivers it to the senses of the physical body, so that we can experience Earth life through the physical body. IE:- we the sentient, conscious, aware, intelligent Soul'self is the only thinking, reasoning sentient part of our being whilst connected to flesh & brain.

Flesh & Brain are only a sensory & processing unit. Nessesary for us to interact with our Earthly surroundings.

And when an invisible Soul Being who is connected to the flesh ie:-you or i, comes into proximity of any non physical surroundings & or other non physical non Earthly Soul beings. It is the Soul'self that perceives spiritual surroundings & non physical people.

Spiritual body has eyes, ears, nose, mouth, limbs etc, & it all opperates in response to the invisible Soul'self.
And everything that you & i "the spiritual Soul'self" may experience of the "non physical", those experiences of the non physical stay in the Soul'self & do not need to be delivered to the brain/processor. Because the brain/processor only processes things of the physical so that the Soul'self can respond to that information.

When the Soul'self experiences anything of the non physical, the information enters the Soul'self only, & the Soul'self then responds.

& anything that the Soul'self experiences, well those experiences are not sent to the brain/processor, as it is not nessesary for them to be sent to the brain.

However if the Soul'self that is connected to flesh would like to sit in a chair with the physical legs crossed & interact with a being of the non physical. Then the Soul'self can have a desire to sit in a chair with legs crossed and then interact, & the physical body would instantly receive nessesary content from Soul'self, of which the brain will deciefer & deliver to the flesh, & you the Soul'self which is enmeshed within the flesh will sit with legs crossed & interact with the non physical spiritual person in your presence.

I highly suggest that you down load the (free) channelings of the "life in the world unseen". It is an in-depth channelings of the spiritual lesser heavens. IE:- it does not recognize or refer to the Holy Kingdom.

There is a completely different channelings regarding all things spiritual & especially of the Heavenly Father Christ entity & the Holy Kingdoms. from all manner of spiritual beings of varying soul qualities. From very low soul qualities to very very high soul quality.
Also a free download called Padgett Messages.

Long post...SMILES, yes.

Originally Posted by sky123

It is said that after the second coming of Christ the dead will be Resurrected.

' In a resurrection, the human remains a human. Indeed, they remain the same human they were before. The Judeo-Christian notion of resurrection is a transformation of the body into an immortal form of the same body. There is a direct relationship between the physical body that dies and the body that physically rises to immortality. The body that dies is the exact body that is raised. It is made new in the sense that it is perfected and no longer subject to frailty and death, but it is still the same body. It is restoring life to the same physical being that has died. '

So if the ' exact body ' rises to immortality Heaven has to be established here on the New Earth.

It was something that popped into my head earlier on today as I was taught differently.

Jesus said ' The Kingdom of God is within and without ' now it makes more sense .

Right here, your job is to make it manifest.

[sky]

Originally Posted by janielee

Right here, your job is to make it manifest.

Agree 100% Hope your in your Heaven.

[BigJohn]

The Bible speaks of people going to Heaven but also of a resurrection like Lazarus had, that is back her on Earth.

The promise of Paradise Lost and Paradise Restored were all events predominately occurring on Earth.