Are Ouija boards really safe??

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by desert rat

I see a number of you tube videos from Ernst Senkowski . There easy to find . The one I watched is part in English part German , not sure what the ghost is speaking .

Pretty soon, I'll make a thread in elec.comm called "Inside The Ghost Box" and we'll look at all of this there.

I'll also go into VLF frequencies as well and the Raudive TSR Antenna. Did you get a chance to view that one I referred you to? "Beta Blocker Spirit Radio?"

I bring a whole lot of new ideas and information about ITC research and together, we may achieve something.

Anyway, sorry for derailing this thread. I'll leave it now.

[wstein]

Originally Posted by The Necromancer

Is it possible that the conversion from raw RF to IF through the superhet (by constant scanning), can produce some kind of heterodyning tone that is capable of having information relayed across it and coming through on a side-band of the modulated radio frequency?

I'd just like to put this one to bed once and for all. Thank you.

First this explains ghost/spirit boxes fairly well.
http://www.examiner.com/review/does-the-ghost-box-work

The scanning is in base frequency, since it is either continuous or in evenly spaced jumps, it doesn't produce voice like results. You either would get a constant tone, a sweeping tone, or clicks.

Hetrodyning is to add a signal (voice in this case) to a carrier frequency at the transmitter or to remove it at the receiver.

Basically either type of box requires that the ghost/spirit be able to manipulate or create electromagnetic fields. A 'hetrodyning tone' is basically just a variation in frequency (FM) or amplitude (AM). Even a small electric field that is physically moved near the antenna can cause that sort of variation.

In the case of the scanning type, that would be to control when the jumps in based frequency (channel, next station) occur. That would also require that the ghost/spirit be able to know what was about to be broadcast (perhaps not so hard from a timeless frame).

In the case of direct signal manipulation of white noise or such they have to reproduce the modulation that is normally done with the throat, mouth, and lips. If you have ever tried to do that by say scratching fingernails over a rough surface, its not at all easy to do mechanically.

Getting all fancy with single sideband and other more complex modulation is just going to make it harder for the ghost/spirit.

Radio signals though broadcast with lots of power, require very little to reach the receiver. As such a ghost/spirit needs far less (physical) power using a ghost box than it would to directly make audible sounds (in the air).

[wstein]

Originally Posted by kjbifidus

This is part of the reason I am here. I think I have a negative attachment that is due to the ouija board, having used it on and off staring at 18.

Once an entity has been 'invited in' it very hard to get a rid of. Its not unlike an ant infestation.

Its not very hard to dislodge an attachment (very hard for full possession). However, there is little to stop them just coming back. Think like shooing a fly, sure it flies off when you wave your hand at it, but its back in a few minutes. The difficult part is keeping the entity away. Many 'low level' entities are straight forward to deal with IF you know what you are doing. Being you feel it was picked up via a Ouija board experience, it is likely to be a 'low level' type. This is not something you want to mess with without experience. Get some experienced help. A note of caution, this is not something that ought to cost a lot of money, there are those that will try to take advantage.

[engellstein]

The first question I ask when dealing with these things is Why do spirits always speak perfect English?? (or whatever language the participant is fluent in.) Do they have spirit language schools or something? Makes no sense.

Yes, I'm aware that some spirits will speak in foreign languages. That's proof right? No. There are cases where people have gone into comas and woke up later able to speak a foreign language fluently that they've never spoken before. How does that happen? Spirits, of course. Nonsense.

Scientists only believe in what they can see and they can only see neurons so they immediately state that all of our thinking happens in the grey matter. So according to them a language we know is hard coded into the neuronal structure. This obviously isn't the case otherwise a man couldn't speak fluently in a foreign language instantly.

The best explanation I've heard is that our brains are electronic switching stations of sorts. We think and emote on spiritual levels and that manifests in the brain as activity we can see with brain scanners. Memories and language and the like are all held in spiritual levels. Evidently, we also have access to information that originates from outside of ourselves (collective unconsious?) which would better explain the foreign language thingy.

Well, what's this have to do with spirits? Why is it that spirits only speak (for the most part) in languages we understand? I say because they aren't speaking but we are speaking. Consciousness isn't something lying inside of us, but is a stream of energy that flows through us. Depending on our vibration level we pick up on different frequencies of energy around us and that influences what we say, because different vibration levels highlight different thought patterns.

Most people see this in action as inspired thought or creative action. People that get into spirit stuff see this in action as taking place outside themselves by another being. I say that this being is just a projection of the mind that it creates in order to make sense of what you're asking of it.

And by extension, if the brain is an electronic switching station, meaning it sends and receives energy, that would lend evidence that it could send out speech in the form of electromagnetic radiation that could be picked up by a receiver. Tying in the previous paragraphs, your mind could choose words that make it sound like an outside spirit instead of yourself.

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by wstein

First this explains ghost/spirit boxes fairly well.
http://www.examiner.com/review/does-the-ghost-box-work

The scanning is in base frequency, since it is either continuous or in evenly spaced jumps, it doesn't produce voice like results. You either would get a constant tone, a sweeping tone, or clicks.

Hetrodyning is to add a signal (voice in this case) to a carrier frequency at the transmitter or to remove it at the receiver.

Basically either type of box requires that the ghost/spirit be able to manipulate or create electromagnetic fields. A 'hetrodyning tone' is basically just a variation in frequency (FM) or amplitude (AM). Even a small electric field that is physically moved near the antenna can cause that sort of variation.

In the case of the scanning type, that would be to control when the jumps in based frequency (channel, next station) occur. That would also require that the ghost/spirit be able to know what was about to be broadcast (perhaps not so hard from a timeless frame).

In the case of direct signal manipulation of white noise or such they have to reproduce the modulation that is normally done with the throat, mouth, and lips. If you have ever tried to do that by say scratching fingernails over a rough surface, its not at all easy to do mechanically.

Getting all fancy with single sideband and other more complex modulation is just going to make it harder for the ghost/spirit.

Radio signals though broadcast with lots of power, require very little to reach the receiver. As such a ghost/spirit needs far less (physical) power using a ghost box than it would to directly make audible sounds (in the air).

Wow! Thank you for that explanation and that link there (I just read it). I appreciate you taking the time and patience to make a very well thought out response.

[engellstein]

Originally Posted by Yharnam

I mentioned earlier that I spoke with an entity claiming to be a demon. I asked him once why he kept showing up, and he mentioned that he comes to chat or hang out, but he isn't around all the time. It could be that sometimes entities have an interest in certain people and just like to chat, and sometimes that interest may not always be good.

Ok, now about the demon. What is a demon? Demons are mentioned in every culture on earth. All of them are different forms and all have different origins and all have different objectives.

Which demon class does this demon belong to? I have a theory: It belongs to the class that you are most familiar with. Probably the Christian type.

This is no coincidence. Continuing with my theories from the previous post, the spirit identified itself as a demon because you have the idea of a demon in mind. If you had another idea of a spirit in mind it would manifest that way.

This isn't to say that we make all this up. If that were the case then how could it manifest outside of ourselves especially through a radio device?

However, I do say that we fabricate these things. There's a difference between making something up and fabricating it, as I'm using the terms.

Making up something means you are delusional on some level and out of touch with reality. Fabricating means your mind actually creates something. Sometimes it stays just in your head, sometimes it becomes something that can influence the world around you. That's powerful.

[Yharnam]

Originally Posted by engellstein

The first question I ask when dealing with these things is Why do spirits always speak perfect English??

They don't. I had a Frenchman show up on the Ouija board, and I only knew enough French to determine that he didn't know any English. My investigation group also had a case of a Spanish ghost who would turn the TV on to a Spanish-speaking station, spoke Spanish in EVPs, and only spoke Spanish when the residents tried to contact her through the Ouija board. The residents did not speak any Spanish, and we later found out that a Latina girl had once lived there and died before the haunting happened.

Most of my Ouija board/pendulum/EVP/Ghost Box conversation have been in English, but I live in an English speaking country and I would imagine most of the residents, dead or alive or something else, would speak the dominant language of the country in which they live. Err... "live." Also, since I'm asking questions in English, I imagine an entity who doesn't speak English is unlikely to answer for the same reason that I don't respond to forum posts that are in a language I don't understand. Furthermore, their English speaking abilities and styles are varied. Very few (usually demonic) spoke it perfectly.

Yes, I'm aware that some spirits will speak in foreign languages. That's proof right? No.

Originally Posted by engellstein

It belongs to the class that you are most familiar with. Probably the Christian type.

Nope... I have a Christian background, yet the demon has described himself and his ideas about the afterlife wildly differently than anything I ever imagined.

Except that he's evil. He's very adamant about that, though I think he's exaggerating because he doesn't seem all that bad. Either that, or his idea of evil is different from mine.

...sometimes it becomes something that can influence the world around you. That's powerful.

Yes, and if that were true, I would use that power to relentlessly mess with people and somehow acquire vast sums of money. But my demon friend is very independent and doesn't like helping me with things unless it's something he seems to enjoy doing.

And no matter how hard I try to believe you, I can't simply tap into the collective unconscious and "know" whether the coin is heads or tails. When using a communicative device, I can't even accurately predict what the spirit's answers are going to be, let alone make the thing answer just by thinking really hard about a word.

Your idea can't be disproved, but everything I've seen points to spirits being their own "people."

[engellstein]

Well, I have to admit, you have some pretty strong arguments. However, I draw my conclusions, unfortunately, from personal experience. Maybe you can shed light on what I went through.

I used a ouija board with the intent to contact my higher self, and it didn't come through but what came through said he was one of my guides. He even told me to get rid of the ouija board because it can be dangerous.

Before I knew it I was autotyping. I was asking a bunch of questions and would type the answers out, and then at one point I thought of my next question and my fingers started typing. At first it was clunky but became more fluent as time went on.

I typed out that it was my guide speaking through me and the typing would be better than the board and that I could get rid of it. So I did. It was just an Android App though so all I did was delete it off my phone.

Long story short, it talked me into doing some things and it turned out to all be lies and then it said it was the devil and wanted to kill me. And then started the erratic body movements. I would have sworn I was possessed by a demon and that it was what I was talking to the whole time, given everything that I've said so far.

So I found a shaman to remove the negative entity and he supposedly did, but it just came back right after I left. And the shaman told me it wasn't a demon but a group of aliens that wanted to take over my soul. So you can imagine how freaked out I am from all this.

Keep in mind I've never had an experience like this in my life.

I went to another energy worker and they tried to get rid of it twice and no dice. Talked to several other energy workers and they all had different stories. In the end one of them told me that there was no entity, but I had created it in my mind. It was like a split in my consciousness but instead of a multiple personality situation, I had created a spirit being that was just hanging out messing with me.

I did days of research into consciousness and how it can split and the concept of tulpas, and it seems like all of it was right on the money. Right after that I talked to a psychic about the entity and she said without hesitation that there was no entity but my energy was out of whack because of the initial fear I had felt and that I needed to get it realigned.

I did so and raised my vibration and before I knew it the thing was gone.

What I'd like to know is why I was fertile grounds for spirit attack yet it seems that not one spirit showed up, but it was just a creation of my own mind. And the shamans and energy workers I dealt with extracted negative entities from people for a living, so it's not like they would have been stumped by the whole thing.

From personal experience I can say I have no reason to believe in spirits of any kind. All my research during this dark time I went through always pointed to rational explanations why people would be convinced that spirits of all kinds exist out there. So why would I be different from all the millions of other people that have spirit encounters? That's what I'd like to know. I doubt anyone can give a reliable answer without discrediting the concept of spirits being real.

At the end of the day people will believe whatever they choose to believe. If a person has their mind "made up" a certain way then even "open minded" research can be swayed by cherry-picking the information or sources of information that are most likely to coincide with the truth they are creating, many folks do this without even realizing it.
Still, just because one finds no evidence in their own research doesn't mean that others who have researched and experimented and found different answers are off somehow.

“For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible.”
― Stuart Chase

Oh, and this little ditty...

“It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.”
― Aristotle, Metaphysics

There are so many lovely quotes out there...so much has already been said and done and yet there is a market for metaphysical and spiritual things, things that people have been examining since there have been people and yet mostly what is seen in the realm of metaphysics and spirituality are people scurrying about re-bagging these old, old ideas and concepts and trying to profit from them. More intriguing and more difficult at times than the challenge to find a spirit, is the challenge to live spiritually.

[engellstein]

^
When my entity problems from the ouija board started I felt certain that it was a demon possession, then the shaman told me it was aliens and I was pretty convinced of that too. At the time I had no concept for it being anything else because no one ever says a spirit is not a spirit. It was only through almost 4 months of research, experiments, and experience that I finally discovered what I was missing the whole time. If everything I've gone through really was of spirit origin then I'll be danged.