Insight.

[Gem]

Imagine I made up a delightful story and in a soft wise spiritual voice told it to you, and you closed your eyes and imagined yourself as the character in the story. It's such a nice story that you feel very happy and peaceful afterward, but that soon wears off so you come back for another wonderful story.

What insight did you gain?

Of course imagining wonderful scenarios improves your mood, but does it give you insight?

If you want to see it 'as it is'... it's like watching a river flow by. You don't add water to make the river deeper, you don't imagine it sounds some other way, you do not do anything at all. You sit on the bank and simply enjoy what is there.

[Gem]

Insight is to see what is there.

People find it irresistable to impose their will on 'what is', and by using volition experience what they prefer, but for insight there is only what happens.

When you learn meditation, it is almost always the case that the instructor will ask you to alter something. 'Breath deep into the belly' or perhaps 'chant like aum' or maybe 'imagine a staircase'... and to do anything like that you need to act volitionally.

When you watch a river flowing, you do not change it, you do try to make it different somehow, you just watch it 'as it is'.

[Gem]

It's not a popular tread.

I wish I could say something fantastic and tantalizing, but what? Make a promise like enlightenment? Then this would be interesting as something most desirable could be gained.

Insight isn't going to gain anything, only see what is already there. You did not gain the river. The river was already flowing. You just stopped to watch it.

Originally Posted by Gem

It's not a popular tread.

I wish I could say something fantastic and tantalizing, but what? Make a promise like enlightenment? Then this would be interesting as something most desirable could be gained.

Insight isn't going to gain anything, only see what is already there. You did not gain the river. The river was already flowing. You just stopped to watch it.

I Want to see the river. Could i jump in it?

Originally Posted by Gem

When you watch a river flowing, you do not change it, you do try to make it different somehow, you just watch it 'as it is'.

What if when I am watching the river flow, I accidentally sit on the sharp edge of a rock? Would it ruin the "as it is" experience of the moment if I then stood up, or repositioned myself?

[ellespirit]

Thank you Gem that was a perspective worth considering.

[Xan]

It occurs to me that insight comes from seeing in... within oneself.

Maybe...


Xan

I don't like guided meditations myself, and don't even use music. I am a purist, hoping only to increase awareness of what is.

Breathing into the belly, on the other hand, is natural. In fact, it is quite healthful and cleansing. As children, that is how we all breathe. It seems like good advice to a person looking for guidance on how to start with meditation.

I am already breathing and I have a belly which expands so thankfully when I breathe full and deep. Quietly observing that miracle until the mind is free from itself seems like it would be a sound meditation practice for those unable to "get there" instantaneously.

[Gem]

If the breathing is already happening, that is how it is. Insight sees it 'as it is' (and not in the way you want it).

First the breath is occuring... then you watch... and seeing it, decide it should be different, 'I will change it. Make it deeper. Put in belly'.

When you watch the river you do not add water to make the river deeper, you do not place weirs to move it where you want. You just sit and watch it.

If volition is used you will see what you prefer, but insight is into 'what is'.

Originally Posted by Gem

If the breathing is already happening, that is how it is. Insight sees it 'as it is' (and not in the way you want it).

First the breath is occuring... then you watch... and seeing it, decide it should be different, 'I will change it. Make it deeper. Put in belly'.

When you watch the river you do not add water to make the river deeper, you do not place weirs to move it where you want. You just sit and watch it.

If volition is used you will see what you prefer, but insight is into 'what is'.

I don't really understand, are you suggesting that if a person becomes aware of their breath, and chooses to make it deeper as a means to focus their awareness within, that they are doing something wrong?