So, God wants us to be perfect, right?

[Starman]

This is an interesting discussion, and to add my two cents; I believe that a lot of people
think of God as an objective creator with human traits and characteristics because in the
Christian Bible it says, paraphrasing, God created man in his own image and likeness.
A number of religions believe this.

So especially in countries, like the U.S., where Christianity is the dominant religion,
this premise is seen as a predicate for God as a person similar to human beings. I was raised
a Christian and also believed that until I found the divine spark of “GOD” that is within me.

From a metaphysical perspective, I came to realize that the likeness of God is within me,
and that my physical body, and this physical universe, was nothing more than an image
projected by that divine energy. The same energy that I found within me, which I often
call “God.” These days for me, that which I call God is omnipresent. It is the one and only
true state of being; and in that state of being there is no “I,” or "me."

The word “God” originated in misogynistic patriarchal cultures that believed in a highest deity
who oversaw all of creation, and that deity was a man. An that man, God, dispenses justice,
rewards and punishments, to those in his creation. It is not my intention to knock anyone’s beliefs,
but I do find it interesting that most who use the word “God” do not see God as a female.

That which I refer to as “God” is indescribable, beyond thoughts, words, and concepts. An in my
opinion “perfection” is but a human concept. I had to laugh when I read something that Katy Perry
said, she loves dogs, and she said the word dog is god spelled backwards. In my opinion, if there
is something called “ultimate perfection” our human minds could not grasp it.

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

Just wanted to say I am enjoying your conversation this morning.
I was going to comment on grok...I thought, oops, I better be sure.
I was thinking it came from Aldous Huxley in 'Brave New World'...wrong!
It's from 'Stranger in A Strange Land'....for the young people here.
"To understand something emphatically!"....to really 'get it'!


I love the term 'transported', Baile. Hi, Shivani.

Hi, Miss H.

Yeah, it's also quite the "It's life, Jim...but not as we know it" moment.

I am enjoying this discussion as well and thank you for explaining where the term "grok" came from. I've never read that book.

I wish we could all meet in Hawaii...but that's out of my budget, so this thread on SF will just have to do.

It's nice having the 'old gang' back together...it brings out a more 'relaxed' version of myself.

[Miss Hepburn]

Ah, made in His image.
My idea of that one was blown when I read Dr. Caroline Leaf's research on
the brain.
We have electrochemical reactions and actions occurring in the brain at a rate of 400 billion per second!
We have approx 3 million years worth of storage space for information in our brains!

A thought looks like a tree with a trunk and many branches in your brain;
each 'thought tree' is made up of cells called neurons.
We have around 100 trillion of these trees in our brains...and each tree can grow 70,000 branches.
Added: So this is why and how we have 3,000,000 yrs worth of storage


'Oh, so that's what is meant by we are created in His image."
Alrighty then!


(I know there is a handful of us 'gang'....we now who we are!)

[Shivani Devi]

About 'concepts' and all.

Nothing much has changed in my mind nor in my belief system since my mind "grokked A" as a child.

I figured that 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it' and this is not meant as an exercise in affixing limitation or imposing ideas/concepts...it is just a sharing..a very personal ideology.

The labels of being a 'Hindu' and being a 'Shaivite' are still firmly affixed, because it was through those concepts, I was able to transcend them and also be 'transported' to God only knows where.

I have always felt this 'soul connection' to only one Deity...also being fully aware that this 'form' only crudely represents the unlimited potential behind it and so, I have personified "God" only as a representation of what a "God" is.

I am also aware that one aspect of a transcendent reality is 'omnipresence' and so, if this thing called "God" wanted to manifest as a "being"...well, a God without limitation could DO such a thing...but it wouldn't be defined, confined or limited by it.

Maybe it was conditioning, personal choice, past life, whatever...but it was more of a 'revelation' to me rather than any form of choice or indoctrination...but it was the way He (and yes, I am one who uses "He" because I say "God") made me feel deep within my heart...turning it inside-out with unconditional love and that was totally worth it...because I also realised through this, that love is all there is...it is the whole energy and vibration of the universe...God is Love, Him/Her/Itself.

That is the "Image" we are created in.

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

I have experienced this as well, so that's why I am also still rather fuzzy about the whole "I am God" bit myself. The ocean becomes the drop, but the ocean is still the ocean and the drop is still the drop.

Speaking of God 'in' the 'form' of the uni-verse 'we' 'peepers' 'find' our 'selves' 'in', here are the first (6) paragraphs of my book, titled Godspeak 2000: (subtitle: Let it Be Known):

"What are you doing with your Life? Could you do better with it? What is Life all about anyway? And just how do you fit into it? The extent of your creative fulfillment depends on how honestly you answer such questions, and the degree to which your judgments and decisions are guided by the truth.

Whether you are young or old, male or female, black, white or color between; whatever your particular features and talents; whichever set(s) of people you ‘belong’ to; and whoever or however many you may be allied with— in ultimate terms, these are relatively minor factors and insignificant distinctions. Primarily and most fundamentally, you are a child of the Universe, sustained and governed by dynamics much greater than your own or those of any human grouping. You may like what you want and attempt what you will, but you will effectively prosper and succeed only insofar as you identify and navigate the vital currents that surround and include both others and yourself, for, in the final analysis, we are all but little fish in Life’s much larger stream. [added note: this analogically is pretty much the same as the 'drop' in an 'ocean' analogy you used, SD, except, by implication, it 'says' that the 'fish' are living beings and that they/we have a different 'form' than the Supreme One, i.e. than the 'ocean'.]

If you wish to be more than just a bouncing ball, pointlessly ricocheting off and between others around you; if your life is to amount to more than a ripple that simply dissipates as it traverses space and time—it is crucial that you understand and appropriately utilize the opportunity inher*ent in being an aspect of vibrant energy within a much greater, infinitely creative flow of energetic vibration.

Your life is a part of all Life, much the way the move*ment of a molecule in its membrane is an integral component of a drum’s total excitation. What you know as Life‑on‑Earth is the conjoint response of our global ‘drumhead’ to a cosmic ‘drumbeat’, partly a function of activity stemming from the sun itself and partly a function of planetary movements. Like a tuning fork, but with much greater complexity because of the tremendous multiplicity and mutuality of our involve*ment, we all ‘vibrate’ together in reflexive co‑motion.

Our weather provides exemplary illustration: Re*sponding to surrounding stimulus, air and water move in periodic patterns that moisten land surfaces and, eroding and dissolving them, mineralize our rivers, lakes and oceans. They thereby both pave the way for and stimulate further ‘vibrational’ developments. As the sun’s rays rhythmically excite elements of the earth, infusing them with power and catalyzing them into motion, they combine and recombine in ascending sequence, with repercussion building upon repercussion.

Your existence is suspended within a texture of ongoing flux, a personal dance within a cosmic symphony of progressive manifestation. You move in response to trends and events around you, and you contribute to the process as well—not just physically, in ways that are undoubtedly familiar, but also psychospiritually, in ways that transcend sensory data."

Woohoo!

In the treatise, titled "What Jesus Really Meant," which is not completed as yet, I went on to say:

"I addressed the same truth analogically in the book, titled Godspeak 2000, which I completed in 1999 by way of saying: “Your life is a part of all Life, much the way the movement of a molecule in its membrane is an integral component of a drum’s total excitation. What you know as Life-on-Earth is the conjoint response of our global ‘drumhead’ to a cosmic ‘drumbeat’, partly a function of activity stemming from the sun itself and partly a function of planetary movements. Like a tuning fork, but with much greater complexity because of the tremendous multiplicity and mutuality of our involvement, we all ‘vibrate’ together in reflexive co-motion.” [bold-face added now] Beware, however, as in the case of any purely mechanical analogy, this too may be misleading: The ‘drummer’ in our case is actually the Spirit which lives in and animates everything and everyone everywhere everywhen at once. It’s not like our sun and/or our planetary configurations are especially causal, in other words. Every aspect of Being, including ‘you’, is an influenced and influential, hence functionally integral, aspect of The Flow* of Creativity,* without exception.

**Note: these asterisked words reference the same features of Life that Jesus metaphorically alluded to as ‘the Son’ and ‘the Father’, which many also think and speak of as Christ and God, respectively, just in more action-descriptive terms I think.

Woohoo squared!!

[7luminaries]

Seth says excellence provides us with a quality to seek in ourselves and our lives that can always be improved upon at a pace of our choosing. When we begin to recognize that nature itself is filled with intricate "imperfections," we can begin to have a loving regard for our own imperfections and seek excellence in how we conduct our lives."

Originally Posted by God-Like

I think this is on par with what my mum said about self enquiry .

Self enquiry that involves working on self in regards to one's weaknesses .

The process of working on self in this way was to weaken one's weaknesses and strengthen one's strengths ..

There is imperfection in regards to one's weaknesses even if one can admit them and on some level accept them .

x daz x

Hello gents :)
I like this discussion...it is concrete and personal and requires our self-honesty, regarding what is applicable to us here and now on the ground. Regarding our choices, and regarding ownership.

I like to think of it also as starving the bad wolf and feeding the good wolf, because that too acknowledges acceptance and ownership. The bad wolf never dies as he is integral to you, but he can be weakened and tamed and redirected with our loving, conscious choices. He can then become an active, accepted part of what makes you better, more centred, more loving, and more aligned with Source, rather than that which is controlling you, misdirecting you, debasing you, and weakening you.

Starving the insatiable wolf -- the one that can never be satisfied, the wolf of violence, aggression, bloodlust, hatred, fear/betrayal, and greed -- whilst also feeding the wolf which responds well to proper nourishment...the wolf of authentic love and the heart-led consciousness.

Peace & blessings
7L

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Unfortunately there are a shortage of trails around here but an abundance of secluded beaches so peace isn't that far away.

Nah, I think it's more about the stocker on the side that says 'This is Spiritual'.

I remember in the early days I was convinced there were such things as a Life's Purpose, but then I read somewhere that Spirit can't choose the DNA of the body it's born into. If I could so easily have been a leggy blonde with all the accoutrements, what then? It's surprising how much influence DNA and not 'conscious thought' has on your Spirituality.

Hello there GS

I think it's probably a combo of both what is available and what you require. Though female this lifetime, I still have the pale colouring of several lives past as both men and women. Though was dark-haired in a few, mostly it's been a variety of pale. As men I was generally tall and strong. Life was just hugely easier as a man, no matter the **** oppressive regimes and so forth that we suffered under & endured.

Finally, a bit taller and a bit stronger and sportier now as a woman too. After 2 prior lifetimes as vulnerable woman in extremely oppressive & abusive lives, I can say with a good deal of certainty that your strength and your constitution make a huge difference in your capacity and mood -- and even more so, if you are vulnerable...since I was, having suffered violence in many prior lives, and since I had some challenges last go round. I was oppressed and abandoned and I may have been mute or had trouble speaking much. I needed the strength to cope emotionally and I'm quite certain I conveyed as much after the last go round...it is a huge challenge being a woman and as I said, the emotional and spiritual requirements alone are enormously challenging. I think if the vessel is resonant with your needs, you can take it and otherwise you may need to pass.

There have been a few DNA studies done and some of them don't quite agree. The most extensive one says that it all began in Africa with a tribe that also used clicking sounds in their spoken word. A group of them headed out and went east along the coast then down into Australia. Later on they went west into Europe and the like, and obviously into the Americas. From my own DNA I'm more Nordic than Celtic/Pictish because I'm tall and fair-haired with blue eyes. The last battle between the Scots and the Vikings took place less than a couple of miles from here, and Canute (the guy with the sea) was also in the area. It would be interesting to find out, one day.

Well you should give it a go. Those pale eyes can be from many places, for certain, but my guess is your DNA will be more or less similar to my son's...he too is tall and blond with light eyes, though like mine they are not blue. There is nothing surprising...mostly UK, W Europe, etc I mentioned as we've all been on the island for so long. But the % Scandinavian & surrounding areas is a bit higher for my son due to his dad, whose also got more of the taller Scots...you may similarly nudge into the 5, 10, or 15% hahaha In the end...I think these DNA tests are interesting enough but will not tell you too much you don't already know. The various migration related info may be more interesting.

We have genetic memory apparently, science knows it's there but they can't unlock it. If you could unlock the memories your DNA might hold all the way back to..... what a tale would that tell? Considering what our ancestors might have gone through in their migration from Africa and bearing in mind they would have done it at a time when there was an ice age going on, perhaps there's more history in your DNA than you know that could still affect who and what you are today. Perhaps having your **** together is ingrained into your DNA.

I do think there is genetic memory and they've done transgenerational studies of the effects of war and poverty in the older gens on the younger ones. So there is something there. It's mixed in with the lives your soul has chosen to experience, which IMO are far, far fewer than the thousands of previous gens of physical forebears that we each have. There are also great opportunities for healing and reconciliation within each of us, regarding all of these aspects of who we are.

I was watching a sci-fi one day and one of the characters said something that made me stop and think, and while it's true in sci-fi it's also true in Spirituality. Tine travel is a staple in sci-fi and travellers are told to be careful not to change the timeline. What few people do is project that forwards and think of how what we do here today might affect the future. So if you're going to look at DNA history and migration patterns to understand where you've come from, wouldn't it be just as pertinent to at least think about where you might be going? No I'm not talking about divining the future, just thinking about how your past has brought you here and how your 'bigger picture' might look given what you've been through?

We're not hominids any more so we don't need to be scared of the dark, nd it's no longer a question of survival.

It's statements like these that make me wonder what's going on. I agree with you whole-heartedly by the way. But if there is a constant interaction (Vesica Pisces at play) why so much Spirit vs human?

These are terms and concepts we can use to get at the processes that are at work here regarding how we manifest who we are more truly. At present, that will involve manifestation into the physical realm since that is where we are incarnated and tethered. There is the less material ("spirit") and the rather more material ("physical"). As always, language is limited but we do the best we can.

I've had this discussion before and so far nobody has given me an answer that makes any real sense.

I was once called crazy for this but in one similar discussion I said that I would have liked to thank my abuser for what he did to me, because he was instrumental in making me the person I am today. I couldn't harm another Soul because I know how that feels and if I hadn't been abused perhaps it would have been a different story. And it doesn't stop there, because there's a chain that carries on into my adult Life and how I interact with others.

I'm grateful that I've been a part of some major changes in people's Lives and how they perceive themselves, and that in turn has changed the people they then interact with. None of that would have happened if I hadn't been abused. Granted it's not something I wanted at the time but even that brings so many very Spiritual realisations but now I'm glad it's happened and given the chance I'd do it all again exactly the way it was. So regardless of perfect expression of roles or God-realisation or not, that's what happened and that was the outcome. The world has become a more Loving place as some people at least don't think so badly of themselves and treat others accordingly.

That's another complex topic. In brief (if possible, LOL), I think no matter what, when, or where, every moment in the world is an opportunity to consciously choose to manifest authentic love in the world.

Sometimes, we do better than at other times. Sometimes we are better able (more aware, more loving, more skilled, more endowed or enabled) and sometimes we are better motivated. Sometimes we have many choices readily or apparently at hand and sometimes only a few.

But regardless of what any other person does or does not do...we have the option to choose for ourselves. AND so do they. We may consciously choose to make lemonade out of the lemons, and that is generally always the wisest course of action. We may do so sooner or we may do so much later. There may be good reasons for either. Regardless, after several lifetimes, at a certain point, we don't need to be abused or oppressed to know it's not ideal for anyone. AND if another chooses to do it -- whether to us personally or to the multitudes -- it's on them.

Do we forgive them?
If we know them personally, then it's best to reconcile all round but that requires contrition and true growth and change of heart. Absent that we can always forgive privately whenever possible and move on...it's then just a personal letting go. A liberation at a basic level, at least, even if not at the profound level of healing that reconciliation provides.

If we don't know them and they abused dozens or thousands or millions, forgiveness and compassion are more abstract and the authentic love is more authentically rooted in justice.

Personally I think there's too much talk of perfection and how we're not it and a long way from enough of making the world a better place in more practical terms. But, each to his/her own.

It's true that we don't want to ever step too far away from the connection we each have to the larger human and Gaian community.

I think folks often use the term perfection of/perfecting self or the world as a way to express that very same concept of making the world a better place. Much of it is not only the "man in the mirror" idea but also the idea that when we are better aligned to our core nature, to our centres, that we indeed become more of the love we are at centre. And therefore, we will be better motivated and better able to be and do lovingkindness and equanimity.

Peace & blessings
7L

[davidsun]

... but then I read somewhere that Spirit can't choose the DNA of the body it's born into. If I could so easily have been a leggy blonde with all the accoutrements, what then? It's surprising how much influence DNA and not 'conscious thought' has on your Spirituality.

Somewhere? Over the rainbow?

Maybe you would find reading some more edifying. But then people generally only 'find' what confirms (affirms?) their present belief and spirit orinetation patterns.

From Ch.12 of Michael Newton's book, Journey of Souls, titled: Life Selection (the info in the book derives from his experience with clients as a between-life hypnotic regression therapist - he shares segments of session transcripts from many 'cases):

"I have said souls do have the freedom to choose when, where, and who they want to be in their physical lives. Certain souls spend less time in the spirit world in order to accelerate development, while others are very reluctant to leave. There is no question but what our guides exert great influence in this matter. Just as we were given an intake interview in the orientation phase right after death, there are preparatory exit interviews by spiritual advisors to determine our readiness for rebirth. The case which follows illustrates a typical spiritual scene with a lower-level soul. ..."

"Once a soul has decided to incarnate again, the next stage in the return process is to be directed to the place of life selection. Souls consider when and where they want to go on Earth before making a decision on who they will be in their new life. Because of this spiritual practice, I have divided life selection and our final choice of a body into two chapters for ease of understanding.

"The selection of a time and place for incarnation and who we want to be are not completely separate decisions. However, we start by having the opportunity of viewing how we might fit into certain environments in future time segments. Then our attention is directed to people living in these places. I was a little distracted by this procedure until I realized a soul is largely influenced by cultural conditions and events, as well as by the participants in these events, during a span of chronological time."

And from Ch13: Choosing a New Body:

"In the place of life selection, our souls preview the life span of more than one human being within the same time cycle. When we leave this area, most souls are inclined toward one leading candidate presented to us for soul occupation. However, our spiritual advisors give us ample opportunity to reflect upon all we have seen in the future before making a final decision. This chapter is devoted to the many elements which go into that decision.

"Our deliberations over body alternatives actually begin before we go to the place of life selection. Souls do this in order to adequately prepare themselves for viewing certain people in different cultural settings on Earth. I sense those souls who set up the screening room know in advance what to show us, because of these thoughts in our minds. Great care must be taken in choosing just the right body to serve us in the life to come. As I have said, guides and peer group members are part of this evaluation process prior to, and after, we visit the place of life selection.

"When listening to my subjects describe all the preparations which go into picking a new physical body, I am constantly reminded of the fluidity of spiritual time. Our teachers use relative future time in the place of life selection to allow souls to measure human usefulness for working on unfinished lesson plans. Blueprints for the next life vary in the degree of difficulty the soul-mind sets for itself. If we have just come off an easy life, making little interpersonal progress, our soul might want to choose a person in the next time cycle who will face heartache and perhaps tragedy. It is not out of the ordinary for me to see someone who has skated through an unchallenging life overloading themselves with turmoil in the next one to catch up with their learning goals.

"The soul-mind is far from infallible as it works in conjunction with a biological brain. Regardless of our soul level, being human means we will all make mistakes and have the necessity of engaging in midcourse corrections during our lives. This will be true with any body we select. ..."

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by davidsun

Speaking of God 'in' the 'form' of the uni-verse 'we' 'peepers' 'find' our 'selves' 'in', here are the first (6) paragraphs of my book, titled Godspeak 2000: (subtitle: Let it Be Known):

"What are you doing with your Life? Could you do better with it? What is Life all about anyway? And just how do you fit into it? The extent of your creative fulfillment depends on how honestly you answer such questions, and the degree to which your judgments and decisions are guided by the truth.

Whether you are young or old, male or female, black, white or color between; whatever your particular features and talents; whichever set(s) of people you ‘belong’ to; and whoever or however many you may be allied with— in ultimate terms, these are relatively minor factors and insignificant distinctions. Primarily and most fundamentally, you are a child of the Universe, sustained and governed by dynamics much greater than your own or those of any human grouping. You may like what you want and attempt what you will, but you will effectively prosper and succeed only insofar as you identify and navigate the vital currents that surround and include both others and yourself, for, in the final analysis, we are all but little fish in Life’s much larger stream. [added note: this analogically is pretty much the same as the 'drop' in an 'ocean' analogy you used, SD, except, by implication, it 'says' that the 'fish' are living beings and that they/we have a different 'form' than the Supreme One, i.e. than the 'ocean'.]

If you wish to be more than just a bouncing ball, pointlessly ricocheting off and between others around you; if your life is to amount to more than a ripple that simply dissipates as it traverses space and time—it is crucial that you understand and appropriately utilize the opportunity inher*ent in being an aspect of vibrant energy within a much greater, infinitely creative flow of energetic vibration.

Your life is a part of all Life, much the way the move*ment of a molecule in its membrane is an integral component of a drum’s total excitation. What you know as Life‑on‑Earth is the conjoint response of our global ‘drumhead’ to a cosmic ‘drumbeat’, partly a function of activity stemming from the sun itself and partly a function of planetary movements. Like a tuning fork, but with much greater complexity because of the tremendous multiplicity and mutuality of our involve*ment, we all ‘vibrate’ together in reflexive co‑motion.

Our weather provides exemplary illustration: Re*sponding to surrounding stimulus, air and water move in periodic patterns that moisten land surfaces and, eroding and dissolving them, mineralize our rivers, lakes and oceans. They thereby both pave the way for and stimulate further ‘vibrational’ developments. As the sun’s rays rhythmically excite elements of the earth, infusing them with power and catalyzing them into motion, they combine and recombine in ascending sequence, with repercussion building upon repercussion.

Your existence is suspended within a texture of ongoing flux, a personal dance within a cosmic symphony of progressive manifestation. You move in response to trends and events around you, and you contribute to the process as well—not just physically, in ways that are undoubtedly familiar, but also psychospiritually, in ways that transcend sensory data."

Woohoo!

In the treatise, titled "What Jesus Really Meant," which is not completed as yet, I went on to say:

"I addressed the same truth analogically in the book, titled Godspeak 2000, which I completed in 1999 by way of saying: “Your life is a part of all Life, much the way the movement of a molecule in its membrane is an integral component of a drum’s total excitation. What you know as Life-on-Earth is the conjoint response of our global ‘drumhead’ to a cosmic ‘drumbeat’, partly a function of activity stemming from the sun itself and partly a function of planetary movements. Like a tuning fork, but with much greater complexity because of the tremendous multiplicity and mutuality of our involvement, we all ‘vibrate’ together in reflexive co-motion.” [bold-face added now] Beware, however, as in the case of any purely mechanical analogy, this too may be misleading: The ‘drummer’ in our case is actually the Spirit which lives in and animates everything and everyone everywhere everywhen at once. It’s not like our sun and/or our planetary configurations are especially causal, in other words. Every aspect of Being, including ‘you’, is an influenced and influential, hence functionally integral, aspect of The Flow* of Creativity,* without exception.

**Note: these asterisked words reference the same features of Life that Jesus metaphorically alluded to as ‘the Son’ and ‘the Father’, which many also think and speak of as Christ and God, respectively, just in more action-descriptive terms I think.

Woohoo squared!!

I really love the analogy...about how the universe dances to the beat of the cosmic drum...that sounds very familiar to me.

Agad bhum...Agad bhum...bhaje damaru...naache Sadashiva jagada guru.

Let's do some Kailash Kher and Shankhar Mahadevan (just because I can) lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tn3fQz9kZzc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S980-z1qx3g

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

I like to think of it also as starving the bad wolf and feeding the good wolf, because that too acknowledges acceptance and ownership.

This is the key isn't it .

It the duality key .

All these weaknesses and excellences and imperfections are all self reflected upon what we are which eventually leads to that which is beyond such reflections .

In a way we consciously or unconsciously try and emulate what we are beyond fear and judgement and all that jazz because there is an essence of that inherent with each of us . It's the divine spark so to speak .

We are in essence holding up a mirror to ourselves and observing what is imperfect .

It is okay on a superficial level to accept our warty faces and love our big ears and knobbly knees but there is something far deeper and greater than that which pulls us in a way back to beyond the reflection .

I think it's a natural pull and we are magnetised to be what we are in the most natural and purest of form for use of a better word .

This is why the search for Self and the Love for Self is multidimensional and entertains a billion self fragments / fractals ..


x daz x