my ex friend and black magic

[norseman]

[quote=knightofalbion]My 'laws'? Karma, the Law of Reaction, the Law of Threefold Return are central laws of the Wiccan/Pagan code. As is the ancient rede - "harm none". [quote


I would argue that the "laws" quoted are actually "lore".

[knightofalbion]

Originally Posted by blackraven

I agree with what oliviasang said on all counts. Get your friend psychological help and protect yourself. When I read about your friend I was most concerned that she had children that obviously could be affected long term by their mother's instability and obsession with revenge on other's through negative means. What kind of adult's will they become?

Blackraven

A very wise answer.

Originally Posted by norseman

I would argue that the "laws" quoted are actually "lore".

Lore. Points of view. Cultural/social norms. Regardless, they're not "laws" as would be understood in a scientific sense. Let's not pretend that they are. I know many Neopagans who not only dismiss the "Law of Three" but think it's utter nonsense. I've also encountered many different understandings of karma and reciprocity. Unless we're going to bring empirical methodology into it, establishing cause and effect is a dicey undertaking (and sometimes dicey even then given the countless confounding variables). I don't mind that we operate on certain assumptions for the sake of a discussion, but we should be clear that they're assumptions and that others' worldview or norms may differ and thus carry alternative implications.

The long and short of it: we don't really know what's going to happen to her. We can make guesses based on our personal experience and worldviews. I think it's useful to consider guesses from many worldviews.

As an aside, I am curious where these books/sites are that "promote" malevolent spellcraft. I've been deliberately looking for them out of intellectual curiosity and can't find a damned thing that looks legitimate. >_<;

Originally Posted by Quintessence

As an aside, I am curious where these books/sites are that "promote" malevolent spellcraft. I've been deliberately looking for them out of intellectual curiosity and can't find a damned thing that looks legitimate. >_<;

Actually I wondered the same thing myself - anyone want to post links if they know of something? Not to side-track the thread or anything but I'm very curious myself, like Quintessence here I have a LOT of trouble finding anything legit. If nothing else it'd be cool to see someone else teaching the same methods I use, or perhaps even tips I could find useful - or just to see what's out there.

Originally Posted by Nebulous

Actually I wondered the same thing myself - anyone want to post links if they know of something? Not to side-track the thread or anything but I'm very curious myself, like Quintessence here I have a LOT of trouble finding anything legit. If nothing else it'd be cool to see someone else teaching the same methods I use, or perhaps even tips I could find useful - or just to see what's out there.

There is a witchcraft store right in the middle of our town in one of the old buildings. You can find anything and everything you want in there...even 100 year old books on witchcraft...wiccan...I walked through the store and looked at some quarts and bought some sage and incents but I didn't look at all the books....some which were very old and obviously had been used. I'm not educated on this stuff so I couldn't tell you what it was about. I just saw pentagrams and such and didn't touch it.

Oh. Maybe that's it. It occurs to me that some of those who are calling a practice out as malevolent spellcraft are doing so out of ignorance. I've been engrossed in contemporary Paganism for so long that I forget that there is a sizable portion of the population that finds everything outside of its own religious/spiritual cannon to be automatically evil or bad mojo. Or that there are people who listen overmuch to fictional stories about occult movements to the point that they see pentacles and automatically think it is something bad.

I can say with decent certitude that none of those books with pentagrams were about malevolent spellcraft. I've been to a fair number of Neopagan/Witchy stores over the years, and even the well-stocked ones don't carry anything like that. Blast, it's hard to even find a correspondence table that lists the weaknesses of working with a particular substance! "Use borage for courage" should be followed by "CAUTION: may induce reckless behavior or excess bravado."

[knightofalbion]

Originally Posted by Quintessence

Oh. Maybe that's it. It occurs to me that some of those who are calling a practice out as malevolent spellcraft are doing so out of ignorance. I've been engrossed in contemporary Paganism for so long that I forget that there is a sizable portion of the population that finds everything outside of its own religious/spiritual cannon to be automatically evil or bad mojo. Or that there are people who listen overmuch to fictional stories about occult movements to the point that they see pentacles and automatically think it is something bad.

I can say with decent certitude that none of those books with pentagrams were about malevolent spellcraft. I've been to a fair number of Neopagan/Witchy stores over the years, and even the well-stocked ones don't carry anything like that. Blast, it's hard to even find a correspondence table that lists the weaknesses of working with a particular substance! "Use borage for courage" should be followed by "CAUTION: may induce reckless behavior or excess bravado."

"Decent certitude" As a matter of interest how can you say that when you weren't there? You didn't see those books, you didn't read them and you don't even know what they're called.

I do have certain people in mind re those other books and websites, though I'm hardly likely to want to promote the degenerates...

Cause and effect/karma. Our actions have consequences. 'You' can deny the Law, but you cannot mock it, cheat it or deceive it. Every action is indelibly 'recorded' on your soul.
A lesson to everyone to consider their actions - and what they teach and incite others to do.

As for that woman with her black magic and all the hate and venom swilling round inside her. She'll answer to the Law same as everyone else and in the fullness of time she'll have to make amends for everything she has done.

Originally Posted by knightofalbion

"Decent certitude" As a matter of interest how can you say that when you weren't there? You didn't see those books, you didn't read them and you don't even know what they're called.

I do have certain people in mind re those other books and websites, though I'm hardly likely to want to promote the degenerates...

Cause and effect/karma. Our actions have consequences. 'You' can deny the Law, but you cannot mock it, cheat it or deceive it. Every action is indelibly 'recorded' on your soul.
A lesson to everyone to consider their actions - and what they teach and incite others to do.

As for that woman with her black magic and all the hate and venom swilling round inside her. She'll answer to the Law same as everyone else and in the fullness of time she'll have to make amends for everything she has done.

I totally agree knight. I'm not even responding to that post. I have respect for everyones religious and spiritual point of views. I don't mind wiccan or witchcraft as long as somebody isn't using it for malicious purposes or against me and my family. I have concern for her children too. There's not a lot I can do for her as I have been there for her and she has not been there for me and has directed her anger at me. If this is the path she wants...well then that's the path she has chosen. This post has nothing to do with targeting somebodys beliefs or spiritual practice...its the frame of mind and intent behind the person using it.

You know I sometimes wonder about this karma thing. I've done things as a kid that didn't get back around to me until I was an adult...but yes it did come back around. Sometimes many many years later. It wasn't always a revenge karma either....sometimes it seemed that way but the things that came back around were sometimes threefold and other times because the situation was already balanced so when it did come back around it was more of a learning lesson to both sides. If somebody is hurting themself first and doesn't realize it...maybe it is her karma is deal with her emotional and mental problems or her childrens problems as they get older from all this. Sometimes I wonder about people who think its okay to do anything they want because they don't believe in karma or perhaps have done some not so nice things themself and reject the idea they may have to answer for that later on. This isn't about revenge though....this is about a lost friend and everything in between. It isn't all about magic black or white....its about the use of it by a person full of anger and revenge...a lot of it distorted...which brought me to the idea of a possible mental illness since she seems oblivious to how its affecting her friends family and children. She also lies and dabbles in stirring the pot out of spite. I can't get aany truth from her and so I have two options...try to figure it out on my own or let it go. I have decided to let it go.

Black magic requires enormous strength, this special inner core that keeps you from loosing grasp of your life. Not many can do it.