Freedom.

[Gem]

What are we free from?

[sound]

We are free from non-existence ...

[Miss Hepburn]

Hopefully, suffering and the delusion of separation.
Freedom from believing that what we see in this 3rd dimension is "real".

[Gem]

Is it the 3rd dimension or just 3 dimensional?

I wonder what freedom means from the perspective of what is 'not free', so there must be some nature of shackle which inhibits to define 'not free', and I think I'm really asking what is the shackle?

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by Gem

I wonder what freedom means from the perspective of what is 'not free', so there must be some nature of shackle which inhibits to define 'not free', and I think I'm really asking what is the shackle?

Oh, well, now you are making it more interesting.

What are the paper chains that keep some from Bliss.
What are the paperchains that keep some from perpetual joy or peace of mind and, especially, contentment, even in external issues as simple as someone denting their car or suddenly losing their income?
Or just simply sitting in peace and freedom while being in stillness- in prayer or meditation?

Their would be a list - and yet off the top - I'd say that list of fear, shame, guilt,
doubt, and more would boil down to what I'd call the Mind.
Others might say the Ego.
The dissolving of Ego, Mind, Lower Ego Self, to accept what Is,

That all is Love, Bliss, Holy and part of the Beloved Creator Who Is only Divine
Ecstasy; Infinite and Infinitesimal.

What would keep you personally from accepting True Freedom or the Ecstasy
that is all around you and in you, Gem?

You'll have your answer for each human being. No?

Great thread.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

Oh, well, now you are making it more interesting.

What are the paper chains that keep some from Bliss.
What are the paperchains that keep some from perpetual joy or peace of mind and, especially, contentment, even in external issues as simple as someone denting their car or suddenly losing their income?
Or just simply sitting in peace and freedom while being in stillness- in prayer or meditation?

Their would be a list - and yet off the top - I'd say that list of fear, shame, guilt,
doubt, and more would boil down to what I'd call the Mind.
Others might say the Ego.
The dissolving of Ego, Mind, Lower Ego Self, to accept what Is,

That all is Love, Bliss, Holy and part of the Beloved Creator Who Is only Divine
Ecstasy; Infinite and Infinitesimal.

What would keep you personally from accepting True Freedom or the Ecstasy
that is all around you and in you, Gem?

You'll have your answer for each human being. No?

Great thread.

I don't have an answer but I think your post implies that you do.

I have never understood why the mind is considered burdensome and freedom really is freedom of the mind... isn't it?

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by Gem

I don't have an answer but I think your post implies that you do.

I have never understood why the mind is considered burdensome and freedom really is freedom of the mind... isn't it?

Well, good question...about the Mind...
This would be my take...the Mind is full of hard to control stuff... sudden anger, resentments, jealousy, fear, worry, low self esteem ---you get the picture.

Then you have the incredible limitation of the Mind --- as all our limited senses bring in input. Why, a dog hears more than us, an eagle sees better than us!

With the input, say, from just the incredibly shockingly small spectrum of visible light.. that we are equiped to perceive.. ( google Electromagnetic spectrum --to see where visible light sits compared to Cosmic rays, Xrays, ultra-violet, infrared, Radio waves, etc..), well, you will see what I mean.

It is shocking how limited this teeny body is in this Universe.

SO...to go beyond the Mind --WEll, bingo ---a whole vast world of perception opens; The Doors of Perception can be opened.

Have you ever meditated? And if so - on what, how long have you ever "sat"...if you feel comfortable telling me, that is.

Miss Hepburn

[blackraven]

Originally Posted by Gem

Is it the 3rd dimension or just 3 dimensional?

I wonder what freedom means from the perspective of what is 'not free', so there must be some nature of shackle which inhibits to define 'not free', and I think I'm really asking what is the shackle?

The 'shackle' could be universal of course such as having the freedom to make ones own decisions and choices in life. That's pretty basic, but I think shackles are unique to each individual depending on the degree of freedom (not defined yet) one has already experienced in life. For me shackles are living in fear of future unknowns. It's that mode of thinking that restricts me in relaxing and being at peace with myself in the moment.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by blackraven

The 'shackle' could be universal of course such as having the freedom to make ones own decisions and choices in life. That's pretty basic, but I think shackles are unique to each individual depending on the degree of freedom (not defined yet) one has already experienced in life. For me shackles are living in fear of future unknowns. It's that mode of thinking that restricts me in relaxing and being at peace with myself in the moment.

Indeed, as age comes upon us the social options available are reduced, and the uncertainty inherent to life can be disconcerting. I'm sure there is a simple guruic answer, but over time I have found that ideals that seem like answers are one step removed from the lived reality, for future thoughts are also part of what survives us, but this doesn't distract from the more pertinent case that this moment is the one which determines the future, just as past moments led here to 'this', so if there is freedom, it is made here.

I was thinking of freedom in two ways. The 'freedom from' and the 'freedom to': The freedom from whatever might be bondage, and the freedom to act - with increased possibility, options or choices - but now I'm also considering a third freedom: the freedom with, where things may be free to be just as they are.

[blackraven]

Originally Posted by Gem

I was thinking of freedom in two ways. The 'freedom from' and the 'freedom to': The freedom from whatever might be bondage, and the freedom to act - with increased possibility, options or choices - but now I'm also considering a third freedom: the freedom with, where things may be free to be just as they are.

I think the 'freedom with, where things may be free to be just as they are' may also present itself as a form of lack of freedom or shackles. For example, what comes to mind is living in a contorted physical body as a result of injury or birth defect or mental deterioration: both being free to be just as they are, but are such persons experiencing freedom at all? So often on these forums I come across vast numbers of people that have medical or mental disorders that drive them into suffering. Is suffering a freedom or is it shackles from freedom of good or optimal health?

But I think I get what you're saying, maybe, about 'freedom with', is it more so living in the moment as is and having the freedom to accept things as they are or freedom to reject ones current state of being? That kind of freedom?