Violence.

[davidmartin]

Originally Posted by BigJohn

You made some really nice points.

Today, some people are sadden that the Bible is looked at as a terrible work of fiction.
But as we look around, some of the same people claim the police should all be shot,
judges are no good, etc. Some people even believe those doing 'bad things' should be rewarded, etc.

Times change.

You might like this BigJohn, the big gun's of the philosopher Plotinus taking aim at the 3rd century Gnostics, some interesting patterns with today's 'zeitgeist'.

http://trisagionseraph.tripod.com/Texts/Plotinus5.html

Their error is that they know nothing good here: all they care for is something else to which they will at some future time apply themselves: yet, this world, to those that have known it once, must be the starting-point of the pursuit: arrived here from out of the divine nature, they must inaugurate their effort by some earthly correction. The understanding of beauty is not given except to a nature scorning the delight of the body, and those that have no part in well-doing can make no step towards the Supernal.

This school, in fact, is convicted by its neglect of all mention of virtue: any discussion of such matters is missing utterly: we are not told what virtue is or under what different kinds it appears; there is no word of all the numerous and noble reflections upon it that have come down to us from the ancients; we do not learn what constitutes it or how it is acquired, how the Soul is tended, how it is cleaned. For to say “Look to God” is not helpful without some instruction as to what this looking imports: it might very well be said that one can “look” and still sacrifice no pleasure, still be the slave of impulse, repeating the word God but held in the grip of every passion and making no effort to master any. Virtue, advancing towards the Term and, linked with thought, occupying a Soul makes God manifest: God on the lips, without a good conduct of life, is a word.

16. On the other hand, to despise this Sphere, and the Gods within it or anything else that is lovely, is not the way to goodness.

Every evil-doer began by despising the Gods; and one not previously corrupt, taking to this contempt, even though in other respects not wholly bad, becomes an evil-doer by the very fact

We must recognize that other men have attained the heights of goodness; we must admit the goodness of the celestial spirits, and above all of the gods — those whose presence is here but their contemplation in the Supreme, and loftiest of them, the lord of this All, the most blessed Soul. Rising still higher, we hymn the divinities of the Intellectual Sphere, and, above all these, the mighty King of that dominion, whose majesty is made patent in the very multitude of the gods.

It is not by crushing the divine unto a unity but by displaying its exuberance — as the Supreme himself has displayed it — that we show knowledge of the might of God, who, abidingly what He is, yet creates that multitude, all dependent on Him, existing by Him and from Him.

This Universe, too, exists by Him and looks to Him — the Universe as a whole and every God within it — and tells of Him to men, all alike revealing the plan and will of the Supreme.

These, in the nature of things, cannot be what He is, but that does not justify you in contempt of them, in pushing yourself forward as not inferior to them.

The more perfect the man, the more compliant he is, even towards his fellows; we must temper our importance, not thrusting insolently beyond what our nature warrants; we must allow other beings, also, their place in the presence of the Godhead; we may not set ourselves alone next after the First in a dream-flight which deprives us of our power of attaining identity with the Godhead in the measure possible to the human Soul, that is to say, to the point of likeness to which the Intellectual-Principle leads us; to exalt ourselves above the Intellectual-Principle is to fall from it.

Yet imbeciles are found to accept such teaching at the mere sound of the words “You, yourself, are to be nobler than all else, nobler than men, nobler than even gods.” Human audacity is very great: a man once modest, restrained and simple hears, “You, yourself, are the child of God; those men whom you used to venerate, those beings whose worship they inherit from antiquity, none of these are His children; you without lifting a hand are nobler than the very heavens”; others take up the cry: the issue will be much as if in a crowd all equally ignorant of figures, one man were told that he stands a thousand cubic feet; he will naturally accept his thousand cubits even though the others present are said to measure only five cubits; he will merely tell himself that the thousand indicates a considerable figure.

[Dargor]

Originally Posted by inavalan

You misunderstood what I wrote, and went off the ... message.

Write whatever you want, and the forum rules allow. There is no free speech to bully, to be disrespectful, to lie ... without consequences.

I don't defend Christianity. I don't even follow it. I defend good manners here, and argue against trolling.

Nothing personal to you or others who are critical to Christianity, beyond the scope of these posts.

Sorry to say, but this is a little bit delusional. If you are already aware that me and the few others who are criticising Christianity here aren't doing any of these things you mention, what's the point of 'defending good manners' when nothing happened? Are you the secret SF morality police?

[sky]

Originally Posted by SlayerOfLight

Sorry to say, but this is a little bit delusional. If you are already aware that me and the few others who are criticising Christianity here aren't doing any of these things you mention, what's the point of 'defending good manners' when nothing happened? Are you the secret SF morality police?

Morality.
Principles concerning the distinction between right and wrong or good and bad behaviour.


Discrimination against LGBS is wrong and Violence is wrong and it's very much part of some Christian beliefs as to being right because it's written in the Bible.
The truth hurts sometimes but I believe Christians need to stand up and shout from the rafters that these Teachings are inhumane and have no place in Christianity.



We have Pope Francis declaring that Gay Men cannot be allowed to enter the Priesthood, then he declares that Homosexuals should not be discriminated against.... One statement contradicts the other.

[Dargor]

Originally Posted by sky123

Morality.
Principles concerning the distinction between right and wrong or good and bad behaviour.


Discrimination against LGBS is wrong and Violence is wrong and it's very much part of some Christian beliefs as to being right because it's written in the Bible.
The truth hurts sometimes but I believe Christians need to stand up and shout from the rafters that these Teachings are inhumane and have no place in Christianity.



We have Pope Francis declaring that Gay Men cannot be allowed to enter the Priesthood, then he declares that Homosexuals should not be discriminated against.... One statement goes against the other.

Fortunately there is such a thing as liberal Christians. In the place where I work (a monastery) there is no discrimination against LGBT and homosexuality and most uphold a more realistic interpretation of the bible rather than a literal one. I even know a former monk who was gay, but he left on his own choice rather than being discriminated against.

[sky]

Originally Posted by SlayerOfLight

Fortunately there is such a thing as liberal Christians. In the place where I work (a monastery) there is no discrimination against LGBT and homosexuality and most uphold a more realistic interpretation of the bible rather than a literal one. I even know a former monk who was gay, but he left on his own choice rather than being discriminated against.

Yes there are liberal Christians I agree and these are the ones that are more in line with what a Christian should be. You will know them by their fruits comes to mind.
Your very lucky to work in a Monastery which sounds like a loving environment, but not all are like this and a Gay Monk wouldn't be tolerated in some which is sad and hurtful and discriminating. I feel so sorry for the LGBT who are brought up in some strict so called Religious homes and attend Schools which teach hell and damnation, although a lot of biblical teachings do seem to be getting banned slowly, but better late than never I suppose.

[Dargor]

Originally Posted by sky123

Yes there are liberal Christians I agree and these are the ones that are more in line with what a Christian should be. You will know them by their fruits comes to mind.
Your very lucky to work in a Monastery which sounds like a loving environment, but not all are like this and a Gay Monk wouldn't be tolerated in some which is sad and hurtful and discriminating. I feel so sorry for the LGBT who are brought up in some strict so called Religious homes and attend Schools which teach hell and damnation, although a lot of biblical teachings do seem to be getting banned slowly, but better late than never I suppose.

I think the place where I work is rather rare when it comes to catholics. I bet your average local church are not as advanced as this monastery (yet) but maybe that might happen sometime in the future. I mean, compared to Islam Christianity evolved quit a lot to the point they dont burn people at the stake anymore, so that's at least one major improvement. But obviously there's quite some more things to work on such as fundamentalism and attitude towards LGBT people and atheists.

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by Jyotir

The problem with swinging a ball-and-chain is that you have to be attached to it to do so.

Did you make that up yourself...cuz wow!
If I use it I just wanted to be able to give the right person credit.

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by sky123

Why did God condone and order such terrible acts of violence found in the OT?

I don't want to be disrespectful to the Christianity area- sure General Beliefs,
Strong Opinions with 'Asking Christians' in the subject could have been better - but here we are.
But, gee, the question was sincere - whatdoya say to a teen, as a Christian?

I do really think the bigger question would be--
why did early people think that He called for atrocities?

And that could be easy to answer - early superstitious minds were pretty fearful of their own shadow- a comet - the way the smoke blew.
Blame and fear and wars were the order of the day!
Thunder? Better get a goat to kill to appease this God in the Sky!
Volcano? On the other side of the world? Better throw, a virgin in to stop it! (Kill)

See?
These early people didn't know where the sun went when it set.
But, we are to believe their superstitious interpretations of things.

They told stories around campfires, bless their little hearts, based on early beliefs based in fear.
And many were in barbaric, slaughtering, warring tribes...so
they projected their ideas onto what God must be like---like them!

Will this be opposite of what today's Christians believe that God is a jealous, murdering monster, that still casts good,
kind people that are unbelievers in an eternal lake of fire? Sure.
And this will offend them.

But to others He is Love beyond imagination and never did those things.
And yes, I wish I was saying this in General Beliefs.
But the moderators have not moved this there, yet.
Is this section 'just' for firm believers in the entire Bible? I dunno...
Not my call.

Originally Posted by BigJohn

You made some really nice points.

Today, some people are sadden that the Bible is looked at as a terrible work of fiction.
But as we look around, some of the same people claim the police should all be shot,
judges are no good, etc. Some people even believe those doing 'bad things' should be rewarded, etc.

Times change.

Please stop watching fake news, John...

[davidmartin]

don't worry all will be ok