People free of suffering

[sky]

Originally Posted by Maisy

A very toxic individual.

If you look deeply there are no people who are toxic and unwholesome, but instead people who are 'acting' in an unwholesome way that 'you' deem as being toxic to 'you', others and themselves.
The inherent nature of all sentient beings is not 'Toxic'....

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Unseeking Seeker

best replaced with acceptance.

Good point.

If a person is holding a grudge or some resentment, or is just scarred by a terrible injustice, forgiveness is a process they'll have to go through, but no one can just forgive because the knot has to unwind. It's like a wind up toy. It's wound up so the inner spring is tight. You can't unwind it, just like you can't unwind a watch. To unwind it just leave it be, accept it 'as it is' and stop winding it up.

[eezi-ulgen]

I believe Annatta (not-self) dissolves resentment and suffering...

...Peace...

[Maisy]

Somebody does something horrible to you, like for example I had someone tell a whole group of people I did something I did not do. This resulted in this whole group hating me. It was a total lie. But this person does this a lot. She has ruined a lot of people's lives in huge ways over decades, a very long time. One person became homeless and lost her marriage and lost her job due to things this woman did. Lies she made up. Others I know had far worse happen to them due to her activities. Amazingly, she is not aware she is doing such things. She thinks she is a great spiritual being. That's why I call her a toxic "person." I see "person" as the total of what one is. True self + ego. (false self mind and so on.) She leaves a wake of suffering in a lot of persons she encounters. Ruining others lives. She is very delusional. I called her on the phone a few times and she denies everything and says she has no memories of such things she did and said. Her thought's and mind are built in such a way she does not perceive things as they are. Nor can she.

She considers herself spiritually superior to others and has a very high authority position in a religious group. She publicly meditates everyday for hours. Add that with her brains false delusional patterns or habits built on non-sense she believes as truth and it is a toxic mess. She ruins lives.

Forgiving her in some mental way I think is inferior to seeing and understanding clearly what she is and how she operates. In the same way a bear will take your food if you leave it out at a camping spot. It's who she is as a person, as an ego. She makes up negatives in her mind about others and believes them to be absolute objective truths. For example say you had a lunch date with her then you got really sick for an simple example. In this example, you call her and tell her you are too sick to come and are throwing up etc. In her mind she would assume you are lying and in fact are not coming because you hate her and then would spend all day calling all your mutual friends telling them you are lying about being sick and she would make up some proof that never happened. But she would believe it happened in some weird way. Delusion. Like she may be out driving, think she sees you somewhere when it's not you etc. and use this in her lie that you are not sick. She is a very toxic person or ego. The totality of what she is, including her real self and nature added to the body's mind and brain etc is one toxic mess.

But I don't hate her and am not angry with her and am not holding on to anything like that. I simply cut her out of my life the best I could. Like a rattlesnake. I don't hate them. I am not angry with them. I simply avoid where they are. I don't think about them at all. I understand their nature and what they do.

[Miss Hepburn]

Wow, Maisy I could have written this!!! Except the person I know is not 'quite' that bad, but is delusional,
yes, makes things UP...I call it distorted thinking...like Carnival mirrors...deranged, actually.
And THEN if that is not enough - like your story --talks to others lying or fabricating things about you...
luckily I believe most people know this about her by now.

[Maisy]

On the subject of forgiving yourself (which I see as very important) I see it the same way. Say you did something in the past and can't forgive yourself for it. It was horrible. But you lost control of yourself due to stress, or anger, or whatever. In the moment such a thing happened you were not your best self. Here again, in that moment, the sum of what you were or existed, acted. It was not "singular you" acting obviously as now you feel terrible about it. If you were "one singular" you that is always the same it would not have happened.

The act did not happen in a vacuum. There was the "ego," that existed in those moments, the state of how ones true self was identified with ego with it's mind and past. How much one was identifying with the person and it's "story" and to be free of such things is no small matter. It is the "given" state how most are at most times. So false identity is operating. That is the reality and totality of what we are in those moments. Then there's others involved and the circumstances of that moment in time. The past, histories, with those others and on and on.

So something happened you regret. But based on what existed at the time and place, no other act could have happened. So there is no reason to be hard on yourself or be angry at yourself. For some karmic reason all those factors came together and played out. The memory I think is a good thing in that it shows one the dangers of having and being an ego. Ego's act. In good ways or bad ways based on their properties and conditioning, internal and external factors.

To have no ego is to be detached from most of the stuff that existed that led to something you regret. But it was not you doing it. It was what existed at that time. Now is a new time and those things we regret that happened can be the motivation we need to change what we are. To see the danger in it. If I am a bear or a rattle snake I may hurt others. If I am an ego I may hurt others (and myself) In the now I drop the false self, let go of mind and ego, keep my understanding and awareness and knowledge, and operate as one without an agenda, without any desire other than to manifest and be my true loving self, then I can't hurt myself or another. My mind is kept empty but I am full of presence and awareness. Walking on a beautiful and wonderous path, while steering clear of bears and rattlesnakes. That exist externally and internally.

[Miss Hepburn]

@Maisy
I wish I would have read your last post about forgiving yourself, your 'past self'
that was hurt and angry (the territory of ego)...in 2006.
Wise words. Thanks.

I think betrayal can cut deeper than if a friend in your house actually stole something...cuz that is a true mental
illness, imo ---stealing. Lying to others about you has far deeper effects. Gee.
But to bring this back to suffering...I shrug my shoulders and shake my head, "Oh well."
What can ya do!?

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

@Maisy
I wish I would have read your last post about forgiving yourself, your 'past self'
that was hurt and angry (the territory of ego)...in 2006.
Wise words. Thanks.
do!?

Hi….

I also appreciated the post of Maisy. I think of what gives life……in other words what can be identified as being necessary for abundant life. For me it is love, forgiveness and mercy……never to be viewed separately but to realize that they represent synonyms of each other. The mention of ego is significant because it traps us in duality. To believe in eternal life one must embrace non-duality…..the ultimate duality is to speak of life and death…..there can be no death in eternal life.

[Unseeking Seeker]

In my view, there’s nothing wrong with duality. We learn rapidly by immersion in this realm of contrast. This is what we signed up for.

Sans thought, in silence, ego fades. Awareness yet is and if we remain still, free from fear and desire, attention animated in quietude, we recognise our true essence in singularity ~ living light in ineffable peace.

Awareness without love is barren. So, although we feel no lack, we enter duality to become love enabled. That’s my understanding.

As for ego or identity, once instrumentalised, we employ it as and when needed, just like any other limb. Centred in the tranquil heart, we are always free.

[sky]

Who benefits 'First' when you forgive others, I personally think it's the one who forgives, letting go of resentment and anger is beneficial for our health. I see it as a gift to ourselves....