To who/m or what does ...

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

Hey there Daz :)
Ok, I was not as clear as I could have been, LOL. Sorry about that.
So that's not what I meant but I can see how the misunderstanding arose.

There are some who are sincere in their imbalance and their misalignment.
They are more fully present with their hatred or their fear or their abuse or cruelty.
There are some that are less fully aware in their imbalance and their misalignment.

Over the span of eternity, my apprehension is that most all these folks (most everyone) move to a place of balance and alignment with themselves, and they also become more fully aware, more fully present to that balance and alignment.

So, in my "shorthand speak", I was referring to this place of being aware in a place of balance and alignment.
In my apprehension, this place is a place of fuller alignment with one's centre, one's heart centre, one's core self.
To be clear, in no way does this mean that we do not experience suffering or sadness or loss, or that we do not experience a range of emotion.

However, from a place of fuller alignment, we don't respond to suffering or to joy, either one, in the same way.
We don't externalise or rationalise our behaviour but fully own our choices as being at the very core of the fullness and sublime joy of being.
It is a great and beautiful thing to own our choices and therby take conscious choices, being greatly liberating and also being great acts of lovingkindness from equanimity.
This is my apprehension.

Peace & blessings Dazza
7L

Hey :)





(Yes) It is all down to awareness of self in reflection of what we do .

You have touched upon this as 'alignment' so to speak, but peeps can be also not aware of why they do what they do and still be aligned to themselves and the mission .

Hitler a prime example of that .. The thing is, if you was aware of yourself (that was prior to the mission) one would not carry out the mission now aware / knowing what they know . How can a peep aware that they are love for instance carry out atrocities, many soldiers have a hard time ending lives of others because they know they are just regular dudes with families like themselves as an example . At a point one might just throw their guns down .

The forgetfulness is key, the lack of awareness is key .

As said there is no free will to end another's life experience, there has to be consent in some shape or form .

You don't have an evil free range hitler wiping out millions of folk ..

So peeps need to think why it is allowed to happen and and why peeps have given their consent to experience the atrocities of war .

Why would you think one would sign up to such an agreement?

Open question to anyone ..

So many peeps cry out to God, why have you let this happen ... It just reflects a lack of awareness of why it has happened... and that's understandable


What I would say that we are in agreement with is that peeps that DO become aware of themselves in this lifetime and realize what they are while experiencing the earth plane won't take part in lets say a terrorist attack because they are IN TOTAL awareness of what they are .

Such a peep would not intentionally harm another, but that doesn't separate the love from those that are aware and those that are not .

Another aspect we have already spoken about is the masters initiates .. There have been many generals / men of war that have been on a high level and yet are orchestrating the actions that lead to peeps deaths ..

The whole right and wrong mentality relating to what one does and one morales gets in the way of understanding the bigger picture .

I very much doubt however that there are peeps in or of this world that are in the middle of these atrocities and say this is done through love ..

Our moral compass and our conscience is integrated within or of the mind-body so we feel the pain regardless of the what the bigger picture is or presents ..

Life in this way is mean't to be painful and shocking otherwise we would not be here experiencing the ups and the downs, we wouldn't know the difference between them if we didn't live according to our values .


x dazzle x

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by lemex

I think it is the soul that observes in the end. The difficulty with the journey is in what I call artificial (made) experience that seem to influence the soul. This is what amazes me here. The soul imo is not yet in a doer state we think of, but an experiencer one, a learning one, that is if we are eternal. What will the self eval be like spoken from the position of knowledge and truth and in love. Will the soul say, is this what "I" really wanted to do?

I am a little confused ..

Lets break it down a little if we can ..

I have used the analogy of a peep washing the dishes as an example to identify who/m or what is washing them .

Who/m or what is washing them in your eyes?

You can't wash them without observing the washing, in regards to the Soul is there the soul doing both or is the experiencer something different from that?

In my eyes the experiencer is the observer ..

You can't observe and not do, experience and not observe ..




x daz x

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

But I agree that this being is not misaligned. We create a being called the devil who represents our own misalignment. That way, we can externalize and blame this being as "making us" intend, think, speak, and act in imbalanced and misaligned ways. But in fact, it is we who are imbalanced and misaligned and speak or act etc in these ways.

If we go down this route of creating our own reality in order to self reflect then it shows us that we create the sufferings endured on some level .

Sometimes suffering by the hands of another leads us to understand the sufferings that others are feeling .

Perhaps the best counsellors are the ones that were abused / addicted and such likes themselves ..

You see many good mediums and channellers have had ****** lives in order to emphasise with others in their readings ..

It's all about resonating and understanding others, one can only resonate and understand if one has been through similar experiences ..

Lots of negative spirit entities that attach themselves so to speak are also on some level of our creation given consent to do so in order to allow us to self reflect .

It's all about reflection in this dual world of experience ..

If we boil it all down to self creating and what we are then it can give a clearer picture, no matter what the picture .



x daz x

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

Hello Daz :) My mum would not (to my knowledge) justify them as she never has done. But I understood since late childhood that she was not in a good place and that the short fuse was a weakness of hers, which she strugged to overcome. However, some others would justify them and say they did it because I deserved it, or needed "the devil" beat out of me, or what have ye.

I just followed your lead when you said ''If my mum were ever to justify the beatings and wild rages because it was my fault'' .. so I asked a hypothetical question ..

The point was that one has to be truly aware of why they carried out the beatings .

From what point of self awareness would the initial / immediate answer come from?

I would say if one was to carry out beatings they were not total aware of themselves in regards to why they were .

This is why is imperative to have all the facts at hand, otherwise we are simply guessing why another behaves as they do .

Sure on a basic level we can join the dots and say that certain conditions and influences brought about a certain behaviour but one has to go deeper than that .

One has to be aware of why they subjected themselves to that experience, why they created that experience .

Why the abuser played their part in the abuse .

Then without prejudging we will be able to know where another is coming from ...


x daz x

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

To be honest, it has only rarely penetrated deeply...even the abuse, as clearly, it's not what we "deserve" but rather simply it's what others have to give in that moment. Even as a child, I understood the cruelty and abuse given out on some level was deeply impersonal and almost mindless -- and it's the dehumanisation that is perpetrated when presence and lovingkindness are absent which is, in a sense, the deepest cut of all. It's a refusal to meet that other human being as a unique soul, as in "Namaste". It's true, isn't it? The physic cuts are almost always far, far deeper than the physical. Hence why the spiritual trauma can last across lifetimes.

How else would someone experience the abuse of others if they were not abused . Where would we be in regards to soul growth if there were no dictators, abusers, drug dealers, child traffickers?

It goes round and round back to the beginning as to why there are .

As touched upon and you have agreed with there is the self created reflection ..

Your thoughts saying

To be honest, it has only rarely penetrated deeply...even the abuse, as clearly, it's not what we "deserve" but rather simply it's what others have to give in that moment. Even as a child, I understood the cruelty and abuse given out on some level was deeply impersonal and almost mindless -- and it's the dehumanisation that is perpetrated when presence and lovingkindness are absent which is, in a sense, the deepest cut of all. It's a refusal to meet that other human being as a unique soul, as in "Namaste". It's true, isn't it? The physic cuts are almost always far, far deeper than the physical. Hence why the spiritual trauma can last across lifetimes.


Paints a specific picture of how you feel and yet I am sure you have been the abuser at some point in time ..

This is why when the shoe is on the other foot one takes stock ..

For the record I don't like the energy of abusers, I am sensitive to suffering/s on all levels, but I understand there is a deeper meaning to why life is the way it is .

I know that you have written much on men and sexuality and justice and all that jazz, so I know you have that moral compass pointing that way, I am just emphasising that those that stand up for freedom and equality and justice are having that experience in reflection of those opposites and in reflection of how they see themselves as a part of it .

Without those opposites in place you would not be having the life experiencing you are having ..

So why are these opposites present and why are you fighting your corner?

Need all the facts on a postcard please .. :)

This is why I say what is required will be experienced, it has nowt to do with revenge and such likes ..

The energy behind your life experience is met with the energy behind another's experience and you have to get to the heart of why there is the mutual experience had that entwines .

If there is no evil, no revenge, no malice from the world of spirit when orchestrating future lives, then all expressions will come from what?


x daz x

[7luminaries]

Hey Daz :) and thanks for all your thoughts.

Before I give you more detail on past lives, though, I already just gave you more detail on past lives You can see above what I said about those key past lives and where I carried over impressions of egregious wrongs on my part from those two lifetimes. Of course, it does deeply transform a person, speaking from experience. So, JIC, when you asked for details, I wasn't sure if you saw what I had just shared. But if you mean more details please on those same particular lives/experiences, then just let me know. :)

Now if you also want the in-between stuff I didn't really mention, let me just say generally I was also murdered because I was participating in pro-democratic movements under totalitarian regimes way back in history, in those other lives as gents. There was no smoking gun on my part that led to my murders, really, aside from that general theme and that those close to me resented it -- and in the end betrayed me out of fear, resentment, hatred or similar. I loved them dearly but I also stood for what I believed was right for all, and that's how it played out. It's all good

I feel that I did want to better understand the fullness of the human experience, in all its vulnerability, weakness, pain, and suffering. How else can I be and do love and justice if affirmation of humanity, if the right to dignity and liberty, if justice itself...are only for and by (intended for and brought about by) the strong, the elite, the men, and the hierarchy? It took a few lifetimes to find my voice as a woman, learning how to survive (didn't do too well the 1st 2 times) and to dig out from under and find myself again...as the spiritual burden of being a woman is immense and literally backbreaking in every way, and history has been particularly and relentlessly brutal to many if not most women, even into the modern era. But I am truer to myself now than I've ever been able to be as a woman, now having a voice and some agency and autonomy accorded to me, by way of those civil liberties and right to work that I fought so hard for and died for as a man, so long ago.

Regarding why any particular experience, I would say nearly all folks alive today will experience some injustice and cruelty, and often physical suffering. If you are a woman, nearly all women also experience a pervasive, ongoing threat of assault, and most also experience some sexual trauma, unwanted penetration (rape, coercion), and sexual exploitation -- often extensively and repeatedly. If you are weak and marginalised for any other reason, you will commonly experience much or all of this. This is true of nearly all of known human history on Gaia, for certain. It's far too universal to have signed onto all this trauma all the time. It's more the violent, abusive, oppressive backdrop that is in place when we get here, and almost no one escapes untouched until the backdrop itself is transformed. That's IMO a huge part of why we're here...it's not just about any one individuated consciousness or soul, it's also about the collective and the backdrop. That's why everything and everyone matters, and all we intend, think, say, and do has an impact in all realms, seen or unseen.

The current backdrop of violence and abuse and oppression reflects the level of spiritual and emotional evolution of the species. None of these facts "justify" the perpetration of harms and injustices. But it is simply par for the course and it's what many have to offer, so all others who are present to them will variously receive the oppression, exploitation, abuse, or cruelty. These things are impersonal by their nature, though often others are blamed and scapegoated in the externalisation and rationalisation of the perp, and of course those others will receive and suffer the harms personally. And I do think our current & other life experiences can influence the way in which we personally experience things, for certain.

Lovingkindness on the other hand is personal by its very nature and thus can be offered in a context that fully humanises us. It is also, via equanimity, possible to give lovingkindness through justice and compassion and simple kindness to strangers and to those you've not met. The scalability of lovingkindness and its ability to reach the inner heart centre whilst you are seen and received in your unique humanity...this is what sets it apart. Its total "lack" of a impersonal dehumanising nature. Its humanising or godly quality of personal presence and personal affirmation of self and others. These things are at the core of its transformational, grounding, healing quality.

So ultimately, it's about whether we can meet others on the ground in the fullness of their humanity and their presence, in the fullness of our own humanity and presence. We can do, but if they cannot do equally...then we can and often may need to relate to them more "universally" and less "personally" until and unless they can meet us in the fullness of our humanity. Meaning, we may need to strictly relate to others with equanimity -- with justice and courtesy and respect -- but not in a fully personal sense, if and when they are unable to relate to us as an an equal under God, as a fellow human being, equally worthy and valuable in our being and in our right to be present. In other words, we need to meet everyone as an equal, but some cannot do that for us and therefore we need to keep it more universal (as opposed to "impersonal", which is where the dehumanisation comes in).

If you're going to get in here to gain experiences here on Gaia, you will have to make do with a lot of trauma and learn your lessons regardless. In many cases, regardless of the circumstances. But we adapt and we roll with it -- that's what humanity all do. At some point, whenever that may be, a soul no longer chooses to participate in the bloodlust, the violence, the cruelty, and the injustice. Personal attacks still hurt but no longer penetrate as deeply because our heart has been immensely fortified by equanimity. We realise that we have full ownership of our choices, and also we simply no longer resonate with the mindless, impersonal, dehumanisation of those old ways...no matter how much others may continue to take part (and to thrust them at you if you are near, or as you pass). That's what I was describing.

But I do agree that we absolutely do bring our past and current experiences with us going forward, sometimes consciously and sometimes not, and that these are unique and personal to us...even if also widely commonplace and almost universal in another sense.

From all that you say we create this or that situation, I agree that is partially true, as not all aspects are fully in anyone's control. Probably many aspects are out of our control partially or fully. However I read that you are also saying we are fully responsible for our choices, whether we acknowledge that or not. And there, I do agree with you fully. What we intend, think, say, and do...that is all, along with who we are at centre (mind in heart), that is truly ever ours, and thus that is all that is truly under our purview -- regardless of the infinity of contributing factors from all sides that bring each of us to any particular place and time.

Peace & blessings
7L

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by God-Like

If there is no evil, no revenge, no malice from the world of spirit when orchestrating future lives, then all expressions will come from what?

Daz, before I respond further, what are your thoughts on this? What if all that were dimimishing or approaching a duller roar, as it's hard to think it would be done away with for good, LOL...

If there were less of all that, do you think the reason for being (or being incarnated) would be pointless, or less pressing?

What are your thoughts?

Peace & blessings
7L

[lemex]

Originally Posted by God-Like

I am a little confused ..

Lets break it down a little if we can ..

I have used the analogy of a peep washing the dishes as an example to identify who/m or what is washing them .

Who/m or what is washing them in your eyes?

You can't wash them without observing the washing, in regards to the Soul is there the soul doing both or is the experiencer something different from that?

In my eyes the experiencer is the observer ..

You can't observe and not do, experience and not observe ..

x daz x

The shortest answer is you are correct. The person washing the dishes is washing the dishes. I don't know what other word to use but person. The body isn't eternal, the observer is. I talk about the eternal aspect. We may feel the eternal aspect sees, feels, or agrees with us right now.





Is the body the true experiencer? I say no. The body is a level. I have not yet seen what the soul sees without all the distraction and am most interested to hear from it by being it. Talking to the observer. When the body dies, will the experiencer no longer experience. Personally I think the observer moves on with new experiences. My feeling is, we do not know the experiencer though we think we do. The soul is still finite, always will be.

I use to wash dishes and I must say I never observed washing those dishes? I mention this because I observing was thinking about other matters and experiences. The observer was distracted. Just from what I found the body (physical) determined the experience (of the observer). The observer, ie; soul is not fully realized. Some may feel it is.

As you know I think the soul is binary. When I was introduced to the idea of it, this thought resonated with me and still does. imo, it kidna mirrors karma and reincarnation. But I must say it's going to be exciting to meet the true observer and see the observed to see what it saw compared to what "I" saw.

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

Hey Daz :) and thanks for all your thoughts.

Before I give you more detail on past lives, though, I already just gave you more detail on past lives You can see above what I said about those key past lives and where I carried over impressions of egregious wrongs on my part from those two lifetimes. Of course, it does deeply transform a person, speaking from experience. So, JIC, when you asked for details, I wasn't sure if you saw what I had just shared. But if you mean more details please on those same particular lives/experiences, then just let me know. :)

Now if you also want the in-between stuff I didn't really mention, let me just say generally I was also murdered because I was participating in pro-democratic movements under totalitarian regimes way back in history, in those other lives as gents. There was no smoking gun on my part that led to my murders, really, aside from that general theme and that those close to me resented it -- and in the end betrayed me out of fear, resentment, hatred or similar. I loved them dearly but I also stood for what I believed was right for all, and that's how it played out. It's all good

I feel that I did want to better understand the fullness of the human experience, in all its vulnerability, weakness, pain, and suffering. How else can I be and do love and justice if affirmation of humanity, if the right to dignity and liberty, if justice itself...are only for and by (intended for and brought about by) the strong, the elite, the men, and the hierarchy? It took a few lifetimes to find my voice as a woman, learning how to survive (didn't do too well the 1st 2 times) and to dig out from under and find myself again...as the spiritual burden of being a woman is immense and literally backbreaking in every way, and history has been particularly and relentlessly brutal to many if not most women, even into the modern era. But I am truer to myself now than I've ever been able to be as a woman, now having a voice and some agency and autonomy accorded to me, by way of those civil liberties and right to work that I fought so hard for and died for as a man, so long ago.

Regarding why any particular experience, I would say nearly all folks alive today will experience some injustice and cruelty, and often physical suffering. If you are a woman, nearly all women also experience a pervasive, ongoing threat of assault, and most also experience some sexual trauma, unwanted penetration (rape, coercion), and sexual exploitation -- often extensively and repeatedly. If you are weak and marginalised for any other reason, you will commonly experience much or all of this. This is true of nearly all of known human history on Gaia, for certain. It's far too universal to have signed onto all this trauma all the time. It's more the violent, abusive, oppressive backdrop that is in place when we get here, and almost no one escapes untouched until the backdrop itself is transformed. That's IMO a huge part of why we're here...it's not just about any one individuated consciousness or soul, it's also about the collective and the backdrop. That's why everything and everyone matters, and all we intend, think, say, and do has an impact in all realms, seen or unseen.

Hey :)


lol, don’t go writing pages on past lives, I was saying it in jest just to illustrate that we need all the facts at hand in order to know where another is coming from .. Do you agree?

You might know where you are coming from but you are more likely not to know where anyone else is unless you are privy to such information ..

This is the crux of it isn’t it . Not knowing why a peep would create sufferings to be endured by the hands of another and why this other would oblige .

It also opens the doors to entertain how much of life experience we create from the mighty sufferings endured by an abusive partner down to the car rage incident where you were only shouted obscenities at from afar ..

This leads into your thoughts on why any particular experience ..

Until one has all the facts at hand one can only speculate to certain degrees but the more one understands what we are the more probable the speculation ..

I don’t know the inns and outs of where hitler or jesus was coming from anymore than you, but if you understand what you are at the core beyond this reality then at the core there can only be love . Love that unites and completes us all .

Like said there is no hate, anger, fear, revenge in the spirit world there is a much more of a united collective of souls that help one and other in a variety of ways ..

So we need to ascertain what energy lies behind the planning of our future lives .. for myself that energy reflects that united front of helping one and other grow from within so to speak ..

So if tough love and abuse and sufferings is on the menu who would be stepping up to oblige you?

Some say and i agree with that soul groups / soul mates / twin flames or whatever word suits normally fit the bill and step forward .

Think about it .. who else would be better suited to bring sufferings to your door than someone who is a part of you, is you and loves you .



x dazzle x

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by lemex

The shortest answer is you are correct. The person washing the dishes is washing the dishes. I don't know what other word to use but person. The body isn't eternal, the observer is. I talk about the eternal aspect. We may feel the eternal aspect sees, feels, or agrees with us right now.

This is a good point you are picking up on ..

What word would be suffice to use ..

This is why my thread was titled who/m or what ..

What are you that washes the dishes ..

What is a person?

A person is just a self reference that reflects an awareness of you .

There is only you .

We can call that what we like, that can be problematic however but if we breakdown the person, the ego, the personality and such likes it will still only be you present .

Illusory self counterparts can't wash dishes .. only you can ..

This applies to that which observes and thinks ..

I think there are many guru types that follow the crowd and put aside the doer while embracing one as the observer without understanding what they are saying (or doing) excuse the pun ..


x daz x