How are we different from computers?

I know this statement can make some people angry. Like one time someone said: stars is the same as suns. I got very upset and said: no way, don't you dare say that nonsense. But turns out, they were right.

At one point, we thought that humans and animals were very different things, almost like different species. But at some point we discovered many similarities between us. We realized that we are in some sense "a human animal". In other words, we share things in common. So it's not about us being completely separate things, it's about us being on the continuum, being on the same line, but further away in development.

At one point, I realized that we compute things. We resemble computers. But we are much further on the development scale than computers are. So maybe comparing a computer to a human is like comparing a single cell organism to a human body.

There are two points here: one is that we are much more developed than computers. And the other is that we are more similar to computers than we first thought.

It took a few years of learning for me to start seeing this. So it's not easy to see this picture.

Think of a spider. It responds to the environment with a few of pre-programmed responses. The spider is pretty limited in its programming. It senses us and it does stuff in response to sensing us. And those responses we call "life". But, do you think that one day we could program robots to act like a spider acts? Couldn't a robot be programmed to sense the object near by and to move away? Or attack (depending on what object it senses?)
So the spiders can multiply, replicate. But I bet at some point we could come up with a way to program that. The spiders are self recharging. Maybe we could program that in too? I mean what if we could program a robot to "sense" a power outlet and come and plug itself in?

Remember, I am not saying that computers are like humans. I am saying that they have things in common, they are made of the same computing like stuff (but computers are very limited, while humans are highly complex).

LIFE is a set of self modifying learning programs. They are a set of programs that are able to learn, to adapt to the environment, to write new programs. Maybe some day we could make a computer program which is able to modify itself? Maybe to adapt to the changes?

The computers seem "dead" (like they are not alive) because they don't do anything by themselves. They need our input. They are more like tools we use rather than living beings. But imagine a computer who is sensing that you're coming, activates itself and starts interacting with you? Wouldn't that give you the perception as though the computer is "alive"?

We don't understand our SELF yet. We don't know what we are made of. (mentally and psychologically speaking). Like how does the thinking occur? What are emotions and feelings? What does it mean to get your feelings hurt and why can't a computer get their feelings hurt?

And because we are not very self aware in this area, we don't see the similarities between our SELF and other computing machines. We see ourselves as some miracle of nature, something very different from all the other things we see and know. But, if we were smart enough to know self, we would see the similarities, and how we are all made of the same stuff.

How do you make a decision? You compute it. Like you would give some data to a computer and have it compute the probability for you. It's something like that. Your decisions are computed based on "data" stored in your brain. That's why different people would make different decisions about the same event. People can "see" reality only based on what information is stored in their brain. It's like their brain uses those bits of information to draw a picture of reality for those people. And so that's why perception of reality is different for different people. Beliefs are different because the computing brain is using the data stored in those people's brain to come up with that stuff.

Free will is - the fact that we can make a decision based on the data stored in OUR brain irrespective of what decisions other people make based on the data stored in their brain.

What are responses to the environment? They are computed by your brain based on the type of genes (which is a program) and experiences and likes and dislikes you have. Your responses to the environment will change as your experiences and preferences change.

Your preferences are built overtime by interactions. You interact with something and you like the interaction, so you start to like that shape or thing or a person. If you look at the sky and it gives you a good feeling, you may start liking the color blue. If you interact with your father, and he has narrow eyes, and your interactions give you good feelings, you may develop a preference for people with narrow eyes.

What are emotions? They are your body's way of associating thoughts with certain physical sensations and then triggering these sensations in response to thoughts.

So your body system is a bunch of complex self modifying adapting programs. And your perception of reality is computed by your brain based on all the data stored in your own brain. And this perception of reality will change as data in your brain changes.

Your body has a digestive system. And many other systems. They are all interlocked and interconnected into one huge "human body" system. But this body system could not function unless it was interconnected into the Earth system. For your digestive system would not help you survive unless there was a "food growing" system developed on Earth. (for example)

So all these interconnections and how they work together - it reminds me of factories which we create to make things happen. So your body is like a factory. So we even have similarities with factories.

And your brain computes things in somewhat similar way to a computer computing things.

And then there are abstract systems, such as a public school system, welfare system, political system and all kinds of system. Our life consists of systems.

Think about it: just like our body consists of all kinds of systems physically, in the same way, our entire social structure is made up of abstract systems.

So we are made up of systems.

A computer is called: "a computer system". The human body could be called: "a human body system".

There are physical systems (with physical parts interconnected in a certain way) and there are abstract systems (with ideas and behaviors connected in a certain way).

And a human body has both. A human body biological system is the obvious of course. But the way a human mind works, it's also like a system. It follows certain logical steps to calculate things such as responses, decisions and conclusions. And it has a system of how it goes about its daily life. So a human has A LOT in common with both kinds of systems.

Then there is a bird flocking example. Each bird is programmed to do certain movements (in relationships to another bird). And together, as a collective, they create an emergent behavior called flocking. So in our human body system, each little part (whether biological or mental) does it's little part and together collectively all these parts emerge what we perceive as "human intelligence".

So if you added all this stuff to a computer: being able to replicate, being able to adapt to the environment, being able to feel physical sensations... then you would be closer to making a computer more human like.

So a human is just a more complex version of a computing machine (than the computers we have).

How does the physical connect to the abstract? How can we physical beings interact with abstract things such as ideas? How does our thinking connect to our physical biological body? I think the answer lies in the possibility that everything is abstract at the fundamental level and that the physical things we see is an illusion in a sense.

Like if you think of a phantom leg syndrome... Why does a leg still hurt when it's not even there anymore? It's because it doesn't matter if the leg is there or not. What matters is whether you were programmed to believe that the leg is there. Because it's our programming which made us believe that the leg is there in the first place. This programming created the leg or the perception of the leg.

Why do some people feel pain and others don't? It's because their body program told them to feel it (in some cases) and it didn't say the same thing to those who can't feel it.

Why are some people allergic to air and have to live in some bag or something? It's because their program is messed up in some way.
Sometimes the body cells start to attack themselves. It's like a computer bug, things break down, systems break down.

Why do some people make very stupid decisions (seemingly very illogical)? In some cases, it's because of a computer bug in their brain, it doesn't work right, it doesn't compute correctly, something is messed up in that system.

So, we are all (as One Living Being) are one huge interconnected system. And this system is alive because it's complex and so it emerges the intelligence and consciousness. There are smaller systems, less complex. And so these systems could be alive too in some way, like a single cell organism is alive even though it's not as complex as a human body.

Afterall belief systems for example have properties of life: "they evolve, they adapt, they are born, they die, they grow".

And speaking of replicating and giving birth... humans are actually not capable of replicating individually. It's a human system (consisting of male and female parts) which is able to replicate. So when you're trying to compare some living thing to another, consider that it's only as a collective that humans can replicate (collective meaning 2 people).

Consider an abstract system like Christianity for example... It gives birth to smaller branches (denominations). And think of a big church "dividing" and giving birth to a smaller church (don't cells also divide in order to produce a new living being?)

So computers, factories and systems have a lot in common with us. And if we consist of all three: factory like function and set up, a system governing all the body functions (and mental), and a computing machine....and we are alive.... could some of them be simpler versions of life too?

We have a soul,
We have emotions,
My list could go on and on but I,ll leave the rest to others

[Lucyan28]

Yes we have much in common with computers.

The logical system of the computers have been designed to replicate the way our human logic works. And they have succeeded, a computer can make millions of arithmetic operations per second. That is amazing :)

Originally Posted by celest

We have a soul,
We have emotions,
My list could go on and on but I,ll leave the rest to others

When people look at the clock, it looks like it magically knows the time.
But when people take apart the clock and look at the mechanism, they start to understand how it actually works.

Same with wireless cells phones. How could you possibly not have a wire and still hear each other? I think that people who don't understand the technology would say that it's magical communication.

So I believe that people say "soul" about something they don't know how to define and how it works. They just know that it is. They see what it does. But they never took it apart to see how it works.

So yes, from that perspective, of not taking things apart, we have a soul. (in other words, we have something that works and we don't know how it works).

But for those who took a pick inside, the "soul" starts to resemble something else.

Same with emotions. They seem so magical, so "out of nowhere" at first. Until you start to see how they actually happen, how the body follows logical behavior to create them and they are not as magical as they seemed.

You asked ' how are we different from computers '
I myself feel we are very different, a computer is just a machine, nothing more/nothing less. Humans are not machines. Just my opinion though and others will differ, thats what makes us human.

[SpiritCarrier]

I see the similarities that you described but we have to remember we designed them. Created them. So we have something a computer will never have, life. Yes they can do awesome things but a human had to build the parts that allow them to do those awesome things.

We also have free will. Computers do not. They can only do what they are programmed to do, nothing more nothing less.

Even if humans could create an Artificial Intelligence it still would work only on programming. Some might say we are programed in a way, wired inside our brains, but the difference is that we can make decisions based on our perception of good and bad. No computer will ever be able to do that, no matter what Hollywood movies would have you believe.

Just my two cents.

Peace and Light,
SC

Originally Posted by SpiritCarrier

Some might say we are programed in a way, wired inside our brains, but the difference is that we can make decisions based on our perception of good and bad. No computer will ever be able to do that, no matter what Hollywood movies would have you believe.

Just my two cents.

Peace and Light,
SC

Just my two cents: I don't think that people know yet what "good and bad" is. First, it's relative to your beliefs and circumstances. In different countries "good and bad" could be different, also in different time erahs. Also, Christians' sense and non-Christians' sense of "good and bad" is different.

Some things are considered "bad" by all only because they are very simple and basic (no gray areas). But even "killing" is not always bad because people put medals on some people who kill more in the war. Terrorists get "blessed by God" for killing. Person who protects others by killing an attacker is praised by those others. Or scientists get praise for killing other living beings like bacterias and viruses.

What's "good" is what is beneficial or healthy or serves you in the long run. (if it doesn't serve you, but serves the community, it's still "good" because a healthy community will also means a healthy life for you). So it's a ratio between loss and benefit, it's a calculation.

Your computing brain will have to take into the account how much short term pain will the "good" action bring you versus how much loss (versus long term pain and loss) and whichever wins, (based on the ratio) that action the person will choose to do.

If acting nice towards humans will benefit this human in a long run, the human mind decides that it's "good" to do that (in other words: it will benefit me). And why? Because if we live in the world where all are nice, it's good for us. So it's a calculation of sorts, it's a logical deduction. To be good is to do stuff that will serve you or the community (which eventually serves you). So if "good" is what's more beneficial (all things considered, because the computer brain will have to include pain which the action will cause you into acct)

People don't always choose to do the "right" thing because most people's computing minds are immature and don't consider long term benefits. They focus on short term gain/pleasure. They don't see the whole picture. So their computations/decisions are messed up (not healthly from the perspective of the long term benefit).

[It Is]

Originally Posted by SpiritCarrier

I see the similarities that you described but we have to remember we designed them. Created them. So we have something a computer will never have, life. Yes they can do awesome things but a human had to build the parts that allow them to do those awesome things.

We also have free will. Computers do not. They can only do what they are programmed to do, nothing more nothing less.

Even if humans could create an Artificial Intelligence it still would work only on programming. Some might say we are programed in a way, wired inside our brains, but the difference is that we can make decisions based on our perception of good and bad. No computer will ever be able to do that, no matter what Hollywood movies would have you believe.

Just my two cents.

Peace and Light,
SC

Sorry but we don't have free will.

Even modern science has shown that when we are faced with a "decision" our neurons are busy firing away, organizing the "answer" well before we are even consciously aware of it.

[skygazer]

We resemble computers. But we are much further on the development scale than computers are. So maybe comparing a computer to a human is like comparing a single cell organism to a human body.

They resemble us

[QT Pie]

We are different because we are self aware, and self made. People have always made other people. And no one but people can make people. We are also perpetually self taught making our potential limitless. Computers are limited to their creators imagination.