How to practically force your ego to die?

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

Is it the sense of self or is sense of self being Witnessed too? If it's sense of self that's the Observer Trap. If sense of self is itself being Witnessed that's the breakthrough.

I have a different 'take' on "the sense of self" - it (akin to 'the ego') only looks and feels like a 'trap' if one is negatively biased against it. "I know ... that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean." (Romans 14).

Follow this link to 'get' my 'take' (it is a 'gift' really ) on the idea of 'selflessness': http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/sh...le#post1889165

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

I remember the song, that takes me back quite a long time. In the same vein you can fight against the tide of Fate or you can be at peace within yourself as you ride the waves. Being at peace as you break down, knowing that the breaking down is the forerunner of rebuilding better and stronger. Being at peace with each time having its raison d'etre.

Yes, to all that you say here, GS! Except I think calm would be a 'better' (less likely to be miss-leading) word than peace - which is often advocated/miss-used by miss-leaders to induce others to be 'docile' in relation to whatever 'order' they subscribe to - like those who 'sell' the idea that Jesus was "the Prince of Peace" to dominated folks to induce them to remain socially subordinate. Crikey!

Originally Posted by davidsun

I have a different 'take' on "the sense of self" - it (akin to 'the ego') only looks and feels like a 'trap' if one is negatively biased against it. "I know ... that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean." (Romans 14).

Follow this link to 'get' my 'take' (it is a 'gift' really ) on the idea of 'selflessness': http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/sh...le#post1889165

It's only a trap of non-recognition. The ego self hides the Self. That's the real illusion of Maya. There's nothing wrong or unclean about the small self. In fact when/if one can step back and witness it from the perspective of the Self then everything changes, and not just for One's small self but for all small selfs it interacts with. The Divine within sees the Divine within all selfs.

Originally Posted by davidsun

Yes, to all that you say here, GS! Except I think calm would be a 'better' (less likely to be miss-leading) word than peace - which is often advocated/miss-used by miss-leaders to induce others to be 'docile' in relation to whatever 'order' they subscribe to - like those who 'sell' the idea that Jesus was "the Prince of Peace" to dominated folks to induce them to remain socially subordinate. Crikey!

I'd use serenity.

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

I'd use serenity.

Yah, that can/will 'work' (as in the 'Serenity Prayer'). Maybe not (because it is too 'passive' IMO) for those who having a high-power-n-speed 'trip', as in the case of someone in the middle of a 'battle', especially if and when it appears they may be 'wiped out' at any moment, however - it then may(?) be more advisable for them actively choose (by way of mustering up all their soul-might!) to stay and maintain calm.

Your 'way' is a more suitable for 'armchair' and/or 'gentleman' kinds of 'trips', IMO.

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

It's only a trap of non-recognition. The ego self hides the Self. That's the real illusion of Maya. There's nothing wrong or unclean about the small self. In fact when/if one can step back and witness it from the perspective of the Self then everything changes, and not just for One's small self but for all small selfs it interacts with. The Divine within sees the Divine within all selfs.

Yes BUTT the very 'act' of thinking of and labeling it as being a 'trap' (thoughts-n-descriptions have power, you know!) 'sets the stage' for certain kinds of results/outcomes - doing so is not conducive to positive outcomes, witness the implications of the title of this thread!

It would be much 'better' to 'see' and so 'speak of' 'the self' and/or 'the ego' as being inherently intelligent and capable of learning, through trial and error if nothing else, to become more and more knowing and adept at navigating Life more and more 'successfully'.

Any 'hippie-know-tist' worth his or her salt knows both the negative effects of framing things in negative terms, such as "this or that will end suffering", as well as the benefits of framing things positively, such as "this or that this or that will lead to greater an greater experience and expression of Love and Joy."

Consider this 'framing' (from Paul's letter to the Phillipians) in contrast to the more 'Eastern' kind (of get out of 'the trap' into some kind of imagined absolute reality) of 'trap' which I think you presently subscribe to: "Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God ... Let us therefore, as many as [would be] be perfect ('perfect' meaning fully mature, IMO), be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.!"

Wake-up, wake-up - to the ways in which different philosophies are slanted - whoever or whatever you think you are or are not, JASG.

Originally Posted by davidsun

Yah, that can/will 'work' (as in the 'Serenity Prayer'). Maybe not (because it is too 'passive' IMO) for those who having a high-power-n-speed 'trip', as in the case of someone in the middle of a 'battle', especially if and when it appears they may be 'wiped out' at any moment, however - it then may(?) be more advisable for them actively choose (by way of mustering up all their soul-might!) to stay and maintain calm.

Your 'way' is a more suitable for 'armchair' and/or 'gentleman' kinds of 'trips', IMO.

I'd say serene is a perfect word. Would you believe me if I told you I am utterly serene even when earlier in the week I was taking down a couple of trees with a chainsaw or when I got paged by work that night at 1 AM in the morning and worked straight through to 9 AM? The prior being rather intense physical work and the latter a high-pressure critical application failure that had to be resolved. Those are hardly armchair kinds of trips.

Definition of serene (Entry 1 of 2)

1: marked by or suggestive of utter calm and unruffled repose or quietude
a serene smile

2a: clear and free of storms or unpleasant change
serene skies

2b: shining bright and steady
the moon, serene in glory
— Alexander Pope

Originally Posted by davidsun

Yes BUTT the very 'act' of thinking of and labeling it as being a 'trap' (thoughts-n-descriptions have power, you know!) 'sets the stage' of certain kinds of results/outcomes - doing so is not conducive to positive outcomes, witness the implications of the title of this thread!

It would be much 'better' to 'see' and so 'speak of' 'the self' and/or 'the ego' as being inherently intelligent and capable of learning, through trial and error if nothing else, to become more and more knowing and adept at navigating Life more and more 'successfully'.

Any 'hip-know-tist' worth his or her salt knows both the negative effects of framing things in negative terms, such as "this or that will end suffering", as well as the benefits of framing things positively, such as "this or that this or that will lead to greater an greater experience and expression of Love and Joy."

Wake-up, wake-up! whoever you are, JASG.

I'm speaking of transcendence vs. psychological band-aids. In that respect it's not who one is, but what one is.

[Hilary]

Originally Posted by davidsun

From my book:

The demoralization and demise of those who don’t accede to and accord with the prescriptions of conscience is assured by their own apprehensiveness—they are simul*taneously afflicted from within. Particularly when others around them increasingly suffer, because they then cannot escape knowing that selfish excess is unjustified and denying others their due is a sin [sin=anti-Life], personal misgivings and anticipation of retributive misfortune overshadow their thoughts and feelings. Their fantasies become more troubled. Horrible happenings haunt their dreams. They keep imagining not obtaining what they want and losing what they already have. More and more, what is strikes them as personally insulting. However much may actually be available to them, they experience what isn’t as a significant denial. A sense of incompleteness and insatiety dogs their heels. Feeling more and more alienated from others and less and less a part of Life’s flow, they find being alone and doing nothing ‘grand’ unpleasant and disquieting.

In conjunction with the effect of the psycho*spiritual reactions they evoke from others, such wretched thoughts and feelings psychospiritually operate to guarantee them consequences that are most unfortunate. In proportion to how callous and destructive they are, judgments and fore*bodings see to it that they become foci for what, to those who are naive, appear to be ‘chance’ accidents, ‘natural’ illnesses, ‘inadvertent’ errors in judg*ment and ‘unavoidable’ catastrophes. However hard they try, wherever they may be, those who are not aligned with Life’s greater expression suffer eventual ill fate as, in realms of Mind and Spirit, they accrue more and more negativity. One way or another, those who don’t lovingly do what they can to advance our common cause go awry; if they don’t change for the 'better' along the way, irretrievably.

Sounds about right. Love it.

[Anala]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

There are pearls that you can carry with you in your heart.

Yes, it is a blessing to have friends who are generous beyond belief. There are pearls and people who I hold a space in my heart for. The lessons that ring true in my heart will carry me through this lifetime.