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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Religions & Faiths > Christianity

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Old 11-11-2014, 06:36 PM
Morpheus Morpheus is offline
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The Jewish Origins of Christian Baptism

I'd only recently began considering the origins of ritual water immersion called "Baptism", with respect to the practices of the Essenes. Which community apparently John the Baptist and Jesus had affiliation with on some level, and to some degree.

Turned up at the archeological site of the Essene community were remains of ritual pools, with steps, involved with this practice. Which practice goes back to earlier periods as is cited in the Old Testament.

http://www.haydid.org/ronimmer.htm

The above page shares the passages in the Old Testament relating to the practice. The young and growing Christian, and others who haven't thought about it, will find this of interest.

Here is a webpage discussing the Essenes, their baptism related ritual, and the archaeological find of the Dead Sea Scrolls,
in Qumran.

http://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/category/daily/biblical-artifacts/dead-sea-scrolls/



The Ancient Record of Josepus Flavius
(8.2)

"119 For three forms of philosophy are pursued among the Judeans: the members of one are Pharisees, of another Sadducees, and the third [school], who certainly are reputed to cultivate seriousness, are called Essenes; although Judeans by ancestry, they are even more mutually affectionate than the others.
120 Whereas these men shun the pleasures as vice, they consider self-control and not succumbing to the passions virtue."

http://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/biblical-artifacts/dead-sea-scrolls/josephus-on-the-essenes/
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Eternity does not start with death.
We are in eternity now." - Norman Vincent Peale

"There is no place in this new kind of physics for both the field and matter, for the field is the only reality." - A. Einstein
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Old 14-11-2014, 04:32 PM
Morpheus Morpheus is offline
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Caves at Qumran




From Wikipedia:

"Many scholars have viewed the several large stepped cisterns at Qumran as ritual baths. This supports the religious settlement model."

One of the huge stepped, "Cisterns".



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essenes

"Ritual purification was a common practice among the peoples of Palestine during this period and was thus not specific to the Essenes. Ritual baths are found near many Synagogues of the period."


"Many separate but related religious groups of that era shared similar mystic, eschatological, messianic, and ascetic beliefs. These groups are collectively referred to by various scholars as the "Essenes." Josephus records that Essenes existed in large numbers, and thousands lived throughout Roman Judaea."

We can see how the Lord's parable of the returning "Bridegroom" is borne out in the practices of this community.

"Many of the Essene groups appear to have been celibate, but Josephus speaks also of another "order of Essenes" that observed the practice of being engaged for three years and then becoming married."
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"I believe there are two sides to the phenomena known as death. This side where we live, and the other side, where we shall continue to live.
Eternity does not start with death.
We are in eternity now." - Norman Vincent Peale

"There is no place in this new kind of physics for both the field and matter, for the field is the only reality." - A. Einstein
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Old 22-11-2014, 07:48 PM
Morpheus Morpheus is offline
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"There are several modern Essene movements that sprung up before and after the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls that are modeled on the Ancient Essene Order."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essenes

Likewise, in his book, "Signs in the Sky", British author Adrien Gilbert points out that through the many ages of the Tanakh, the Old Testament scriptures, there seems to be a thread running through, of a certain separate esoteric culture he refers to as, "The Son of Man School".

Who's reference is made involving the Biblical personages of those individuals described as clothed in rough garment, and belt.
Related apparently to the constellation Orion, the, "Son of Man in the Sky".

Related to Prophecy declared in the heavens of a future history from early on, and to early mankind.



Which "school" also, it seems... the separate Essene community had relation to, or affinity with.

Of course, the Lord in the New Testament also refers to Himself as, "The Son of Man".

Luke 18:8 -
"But when the Son of Man returns, how many will he find on the earth who have faith?"

Other prophecy...
Webster's Bible Translation
"I saw in the night visions, and behold, one like the son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him."

Daniel 7:13

From -BibleHub.com

Virgo - The Virgin



The Prophet Isaiah -

kingjamesbibleonline.org/Bible-Verses-About-Virgin-Mary/

"Isaiah 7:14 - Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel."
( interpreted - " God with us ")

The Book of Isaiah is the most comprehensive of those found, among the Dead Sea Scrolls, in Qumran.

From a Jewish site:

http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/464019/jewish/The-Prophet-Isaiah.htm

" 'Go, say unto this people; Ye hear indeed, but understand not; ye see indeed, but know not.
Made obstinate is the heart of this people; their ears are heavy and their eyes shut; or else their eyes would see, their ears hear, and their hearts be understanding, in order that they repent and be healed.' "
--------------------------------------
"The Prophet Isaiah died a martyr’s death. By order of the Jewish king Manasseh he was sawn through...
The prophet was buried not far from the Pool of Siloam."

http://oca.org/saints/lives/2014/05/09/101331-prophet-isaiah

Such is "The World". Human Nature, involving politics, and ego.
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"I believe there are two sides to the phenomena known as death. This side where we live, and the other side, where we shall continue to live.
Eternity does not start with death.
We are in eternity now." - Norman Vincent Peale

"There is no place in this new kind of physics for both the field and matter, for the field is the only reality." - A. Einstein
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Old 22-11-2014, 08:49 PM
Morpheus Morpheus is offline
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"Human nature hasn't really changed since the time of Isaiah. And neither has God... He is still the One who cares" That..." Real satisfaction is found by learning from our God how to live for the needs and for the good of others."

http://www3.telus.net/thegoodnews/isaiah.htm
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"I believe there are two sides to the phenomena known as death. This side where we live, and the other side, where we shall continue to live.
Eternity does not start with death.
We are in eternity now." - Norman Vincent Peale

"There is no place in this new kind of physics for both the field and matter, for the field is the only reality." - A. Einstein
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Old 24-11-2014, 09:13 AM
Morpheus Morpheus is offline
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So again, these things are not apparent, but become evident with study.

Quote:
"There are several modern Essene movements that sprung up before and after the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls that are modeled on the Ancient Essene Order."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essenes
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"I believe there are two sides to the phenomena known as death. This side where we live, and the other side, where we shall continue to live.
Eternity does not start with death.
We are in eternity now." - Norman Vincent Peale

"There is no place in this new kind of physics for both the field and matter, for the field is the only reality." - A. Einstein
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Old 09-12-2014, 08:39 AM
Morpheus Morpheus is offline
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So, it becomes evident that Water Baptism originated in the New Testament with the Essenes. Who were most probably a continuation of something which existed throughout the ages of the Judaic history.

The Essenes, we are to understand, separated themselves from the other two Judiac schools of the Sadducees and Pharisees.
In fact, when some Jewish leaders came to John to be Baptised, he turned them away!
He asked them if they thought they could escape the awful wrath of God for their waywardness, and errant practices and teachings!
These were sentiments of the Essene community, also.

Jesus also, regarding these things accused them of converting people, and then making them, "more a child of hell" than themselves!
These were Jesus words about the Jewish leaders who existed at the time.

Mathew 23:15

"... when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves. ...
But when they've been converted, they become twice the child of hell you are."
__________________
"I believe there are two sides to the phenomena known as death. This side where we live, and the other side, where we shall continue to live.
Eternity does not start with death.
We are in eternity now." - Norman Vincent Peale

"There is no place in this new kind of physics for both the field and matter, for the field is the only reality." - A. Einstein
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Old 13-12-2014, 04:14 PM
Morpheus Morpheus is offline
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The more one meditates on, and researches the situation of the Essene Community, the more one sees a connection to Jesus, and John the Baptist.
The community practiced daily rituals, involving water immersion.

Also, the Essenes separated themselves from the maintream religious governing body of the Jews.
The children of Abraham.

Likewise, Jesus had much to say about the corruption of the Saduucees, and especially the Pharisees. Accusing them and condemning them of the same.
Their carnality, self involvement in the interests, and with regard to concern for wealth.

Can you see a connection between those governing bodies during the Lord's time here, and what is going on today?
Of course, today, we see the same things in governments, having to do with the fallen sitution of humanity.
__________________
"I believe there are two sides to the phenomena known as death. This side where we live, and the other side, where we shall continue to live.
Eternity does not start with death.
We are in eternity now." - Norman Vincent Peale

"There is no place in this new kind of physics for both the field and matter, for the field is the only reality." - A. Einstein
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Old 14-12-2014, 07:25 PM
Morpheus Morpheus is offline
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"Being much fewer in number than the Pharisees and the Sadducees (the other two major sects at the time), the Essenes lived in various cities but congregated in communal life dedicated to asceticism (some groups practiced celibacy), voluntary poverty, and daily immersion."




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essenes

"He (Pliney the Elder) further adds that the Essenes ritually immersed in water every morning, ate together after prayer, devoted themselves to charity and benevolence, forbade the expression of anger, studied the books of the elders, preserved secrets, and were very mindful of the names of the angels kept in their sacred writings."
-------------------------------------------------------
This has become a very interesting study.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_baptism

"Baptism has similarities to Tvilah, a Jewish purification ritual of immersing in water, which is required for, among other things, conversion to Judaism,[33] but which differs in being repeatable, while baptism is to be performed only once."
__________________
"I believe there are two sides to the phenomena known as death. This side where we live, and the other side, where we shall continue to live.
Eternity does not start with death.
We are in eternity now." - Norman Vincent Peale

"There is no place in this new kind of physics for both the field and matter, for the field is the only reality." - A. Einstein
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