The Firm Foundation, the Solid Establishment, and the Long Ordained Institution

[Ninjajms]

Morph- I believe that the Old Test and New Test are in harmony as you say-its true-story after story in the old is represented and fulfilled inn the New-I respect your courage and strength Morph-it is refreshing-I stand with you my brother

[mickiel]

Originally Posted by Eliab_ben_B

What an irrational judgement you make on a whole people !

Now 613 or 614 laws (we still argue the number) , including the priestly ritual laws ...

And i presume many Jews not only can but do keep the laws ..
i know to my knowledge i endeavour to. It is not that hard when the daily
requirements have become culture and tradition ..
Temple laws are of course not currently in use as we have no temple ..

Shalom ... Eliab

You know a human who can keep over 600 laws? I would like to meet these incredible people; I think that would be quite something.

[kkfern]

sensuously. some of the laws are pointless. IMHO keep a second set of dishes . really?

i also see a downside to the laws. they separate. if you are not part of the group. the chosen group, chosen for what i am not sure. then you look down on those that do not follow your laws. religions are a problem.

kk

[Morpheus]

Which is one difference between the Old and New Paradigms, kkfer.
Of course alot of the rituals are illustrative, and representative of something Spiritual.

The Messiah is represented in these things also, such as the ritual in Leviticus 16, regarding, "The Scapegoat".

[Eliab_ben_B]

Originally Posted by mickiel

You know a human who can keep over 600 laws? I would like to meet these incredible people; I think that would be quite something.

Smiles at Mickiel ..... meet yourself, you probably do already, count first all the social rules your parents gave you as you grew up, then the rules at school, add to that the traffic regulations , city ordinance, tax laws, and then the laws of the land your Country established ..

Now considering our 613 are some for women, some for men, some for Levies,
Some for Judites , as well as the dietary laws mentioned by kkfern ..

Speaking to that ... Kkfern including Pesach (passover) it becomes 4
sets of dishes and cooking utensils ...
but as i mentioned it becomes culture and tradition, so no bother

Shalom ... Eliab

[Morpheus]

St. Paul -

"7 - What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? May it never be!
On the contrary,
I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, "YOU SHALL NOT COVET."

Romans 7

Once again... we find ourselves in what is referred to a "Fallen" situation, regarding this, "World".
Regarding this evolved situation, in illusory time and space, this is an altered or fallen situation, from a greater reality and Truth.

We are told that aging, decay, and death came into the world, (Not just humanity), due to Adam's error, and fall.
We are all in the same boat, "here".

Eliab? This scripture, and this is Science also.

"... for all have sinned, and fallen short of the glory of God."
Old Testament, and New.

[kkfern]

Originally Posted by Morpheus

Which is one difference between the Old and New Paradigms, kkfer.
Of course alot of the rituals are illustrative, and representative of something Spiritual.

The Messiah is represented in these things also, such as the ritual in Leviticus 16, regarding, "The Scapegoat".

laws are made and laws are changed. the law may become inappropriate in different times. sometimes the keeping of a law becomes more important then remembering why the law was made. such as the kosher laws for food. in modern times, they are overkill.

in the new paradigms we look for the reason not only the law. we are not afraid to realize mistakes were made in the making of the laws and the faith. in the old ways. we blindly follow.

like thinking there are fallen angels and sin. do you reallly think that angels fell because they would not bow to Adam. why does Adam think angels have to bow to him and why must Lilith lay under Adam. so adam calls her evil because she will not submit. even angels are put in the big bad column because they do not submit to the huge ego of Adam.

in the new paradigm we are willing to see that kind of thinking created the idea of evil where evil did not exist. adam just needed to trash talk others that do no listen to him. the faith went off the rails pretty soon into the book.

now, i do realize that it was the socially accepted way of the society at the time. the first born was always more important. which is no longer true. the servant bowed to the master which is not longer true.

even calling the snake's way evil is part of the historic idea of not being equal to the father. the son will always listen to the father. like knowledge is forbidden. it is forbidden only iof you wish to blindly follow instead of live.


sooooo we can leave the past and the history book behind where it belongs and start anew. born again.

kk

[Morpheus]

"kkfer"

"...like thinking there are fallen angels and sin. do you reallly think that angels fell because they would not bow to Adam. why does Adam think angels have to bow to him and why must Lilith lay under Adam. so adam calls her evil because she will not submit. even angels are put in the big bad column because they do not submit to the huge ego of Adam."

Lets get it straight. Apart from time and space, and before the "serpent" in the garden, there was the angelic rebellion, by which many angels fell due to Lucifer's pride and ego.
The Bible makes clear what happened, with just a little study. Which you have neglected. Involving heart, attitude, and disaffection.

St. Paul -

"7 - What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? May it never be!
On the contrary,
I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, "YOU SHALL NOT COVET."

Romans 7

Once again... we find ourselves in what is referred to a "Fallen" situation, regarding this, "World".
Regarding this evolved situation, in illusory time and space, this is an altered or fallen situation, from a greater reality and Truth.

We are told that aging, decay, and death came into the world, (Not just humanity), due to Adam's error, and fall.
We are all in the same boat, "here".

Eliab? This scripture, and this is Science also.

"... for all have sinned, and fallen short of the glory of God."
Old Testament, and New.

So, I had asked also, Eliab, Isn't God referred to as Savior and Redeemer also in the Old Testament?
God offers redemption to mankind, and through the methodology exhibited by the Messiah. Who is called, again, the Capstone, and Chief Cornerstone, as well.
All of which is evidence of God's Love, Mercy, and intent towards a fallen humanity. And, in an altered and fallen situation.

"...by His stripes we are healed."
-------------------------------------------------------

Isaiah 53:
"But he was wounded and crushed for our sins. He was beaten that we might have peace. He was whipped, and we were healed! All of us have strayed away like ..."

[kkfern]

Originally Posted by Morpheus

"kkfer"

Lets get it straight. Apart from time and space, and before the "serpent" in the garden, there was the angelic rebellion, by which many angels fell due to Lucifer's pride and ego.
The Bible makes clear what happened, with just a little study. Which you have neglected. Involving heart, attitude, and disaffection.



So, I had asked also, Eliab, Isn't God referred to as Savior and Redeemer also in the Old Testament?
God offers redemption to mankind, and through the methodology exhibited by the Messiah. Who is called, again, the Capstone, and Chief Cornerstone, as well.
All of which is evidence of God's Love, Mercy, and intent towards a fallen humanity. And, in an altered and fallen situation.

"...by His stripes we are healed."
-------------------------------------------------------

Isaiah 53:
"But he was wounded and crushed for our sins. He was beaten that we might have peace. He was whipped, and we were healed! All of us have strayed away like ..."

the fall never happened. angels would not do that. just another story to create fear. and create evil. like your quote. i did not know of sin until the law invented it.

i did study the bible. that is how i know how many times it fell off the course. it is time to move on.

kk

[mickiel]

Originally Posted by kkfern

the fall never happened. angels would not do that. just another story to create fear. and create evil. like your quote. i did not know of sin until the law invented it.

i did study the bible. that is how i know how many times it fell off the course. it is time to move on.

kk

The fall is a Christian creation and myth; like much of their doctrines.