Robert Adams

[Tara5]

Originally Posted by God-Like

So when there is a history of acquired knowledge and teachings of other's and such teachings one holds so dear that they become devoted to spread the word, whose teaching's are whose? Whose direct knowledge is whose?

Robert Adams was a self-realized master like Ramana....Robert was awakened at the age of 14, he was 17 years old when he first met Ramana...He travelled all the way to India to meet with Ramana for confirmation of his experience.

If someone doesn't have experiential glimpses of Truth, they can't understand Advaita Vedanta in principle...

In regards to the ego as I see it I relate to self awareness as the ego

relate to self awareness as the ego-----What does it mean?

There cannot be a sense of oneself without it .

I am afraid I don't agree with you.

[iamthat]

Some people study the teachings of others without ever having direct realisation for themselves. They may spread the teachings, acting as a signpost without ever having been to the destination.

Others have direct realisation without any such study. They suddenly find themselves at the destination with no idea how they arrived there. So they say that anyone can do the same thing, but while they can provide descriptions of the destination they cannot offer directions on how to reach there. This is a weakness of some of the current neo-Advaitists - all they can say is do nothing.

Or others may study teachings, have direct realisation and continue studying the teachings of others. If they choose to spread any teachings it is based on their own realisation and the teachings which support what they know to be true. And yet, what worked for them may not work for someone else.

We each travel our own route. For some it may involve years of practices, for others realisation may simply happen out of the blue. We have to assume that such things are not random, and (assuming reincarnation is a fact) realisation comes to those who are ready based on past development.

Regarding the ego, I distinguish between ego as individualised consciousness and ego as identification with the personal self. We may let go of identification with the personal self and know that we are not the doer, but individualised consciousness remains - i.e. we continue to express ourself through a particular vehicle even while knowing the Self to be all things.

Peace.

[Unseeking Seeker]

***

So many different interpretations of ego!

All valid from the point of usage by the ego concerned!!

Now that we are on this topic, I may as well join in. Ego, to me is simply the delusional belief that our individuality ... the label we give to ourselves as a separateness in form from all ... is the truth ... disregarding oneness or interconnectedness. The ‘I’ as in I-Me-Myself. Now, even when we theorise through vicarious knowledge that ‘Oh! We are the soul (whatever that means) or there is God (whatever that is) or we are all one (but unable to feel what this means)’, we, wearing the boots of the ego are merely shifting the i-dentity for a ‘feel-good factor’ to another imagined thought construct.

An awakened consciousness is the one which has had a direct experience of a profoundly spiritual nature in an unmistakable way that requires no validation from anyone, wherein there is a direct knowing by connecting and so feeling as in really feeeeeling within, that we are all interconnected and divine love* (* unconditional, non-judgmental, non-calculating, all embracing, incessantly outpouring) is the highest energy ... omnipresent and all embracing. There is then, after such experience/s, a shift in the fulcrum of our consciousness. Our very reflex instinct shifts in thought, word & deed.

The enlightened consciousness is in an unbroken continuum of such divine connectedness. We then recognise ourselves as a vibrational consciousness in temporary occupation of form, with fulcrum of our flowing attention always in absolute formless oneness awareness or we may say, Universal consciousness.

The impact of divine connectedness manifests love as shifting its colourations or manifestations transiting from bubbling joy to ineffable bliss to compassion and then to purity ... purity being total alignment of consciousness whether its attention is at that instant in duality (external) or in non-duality (internal) from an actionable perspective.

Sorry if I’ve momentarily diverted the topic of this beautiful thread. Ah, The ‘I’ surfaces yet again!

***

[Tara5]

Originally Posted by iamthat

So they say that anyone can do the same thing, but while they can provide descriptions of the destination they cannot offer directions on how to reach there. This is a weakness of some of the current neo-Advaitists - all they can say is do nothing.

Like J Krishnamurti used to say: there is no need for a master or a technique...but JK himself needed theosophists Annie Besant.

To realize the inner Truth, Sadhana (either this life or past lives) is needed.

We each travel our own route. For some it may involve years of practices, for others realisation may simply happen out of the blue. We have to assume that such things are not random, and (assuming reincarnation is a fact) realisation comes to those who are ready based on past development.

That's my point exactly.

Regarding the ego, I distinguish between ego as individualised consciousness and ego as identification with the personal self. We may let go of identification with the personal self and know that we are not the doer, but individualised consciousness remains - i.e. we continue to express ourself through a particular vehicle even while knowing the Self to be all things.

Peace.

i agree completely...thanks

[Tara5]

Originally Posted by Unseeking Seeker

***
Now that we are on this topic, I may as well join in.

Come, come, whoever you are. Wanderer, worshiper, lover of leaving. It doesn't matter. Ours is not a caravan of despair. come, even if you have broken your vows a thousand times. Come, yet again , come , come. (Rumi)

Ego, to me is simply the delusional belief that our individuality ... the label we give to ourselves as a separateness in form from all ... is the truth ... disregarding oneness or interconnectedness. The ‘I’ as in I-Me-Myself.

Completely agree

Sorry if I’ve momentarily diverted the topic of this beautiful thread.

No diversions...only lessons... This thread belongs to everyone.

Ah, The ‘I’ surfaces yet again!

***

Ah, language and its limitations.
Thank you for your valuable input...

[Tara5]

Most of us are not satisfied with our lives and we try to improve our lives and what do we do? We try to improve everything external to ourselves, and this can never be done. We try to change our environment, meet certain people, do certain things and we think this will make us happy. But it only lasts for a short time doesn't it? And you're back to what you were before. This world can never make you happy, it's impossible. It may appear to make you happy for a while because you're gaining something that you want. But it will only last a short time. True happiness comes from nothing. When your happiness arises from nothingness then you're really happy, because nothing made you happy and nothing can take it away. If something makes you happy then if something takes it away you will be miserable. But if you learn to achieve happiness from nothing, this is everlasting. It will never leave you because there is nothing to change.

Robert Adams

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by Tara5

Robert Adams was a self-realized master like Ramana....Robert was awakened at the age of 14, he was 17 years old when he first met Ramana...He travelled all the way to India to meet with Ramana for confirmation of his experience.

If someone doesn't have experiential glimpses of Truth, they can't understand Advaita Vedanta in principle...



relate to self awareness as the ego-----What does it mean?



I am afraid I don't agree with you.

Why would a Self realized master need to understand and study concepts of the mind .

I understand that there at times requires a little confirmation, my mum was my master in my life and she was a guide to my realizations . She didn't study the scriptures and neither have I .

What is there to know post realzation? What is there to learn?

Again, let me say that whose knowledge is whose?

Where has the knowledge come from?



In regards to self awareness as the ego, for examples sake, you observe the candle . You are aware of the candle . You are aware of the candle because you are self aware . You are aware of a candle as a candle and not a lemon because you have already self identified what you relate yourself to being and what the candle is .

This process of self awareness is ego based .

You say that you don't agree with my thoughts in that there cannot be a sense of oneself without it .

Can you give me an example of how you can have a sense of yourself without ego .



x daz x

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by God-Like

Why would a Self realized master need to understand and study concepts of the mind .

What is there to know post realization? What is there to learn?

x daz x

Maybe it is not about understanding and studying concepts of the mind, but more about understanding the nature of the mind. We all have to deal with our minds, and gradually we discover that the mind is a terrible master but is also a useful servant. Much of our journey is spent learning to use the mind as a tool, just as we use the physical body to function effectively in the world. Then we embark on the difficult process of stopping the incessant mental chatter.

If a Self-realised Master chooses to teach others, then those people will be dealing with their own minds. If the Self-realised Master knows the nature of his/her own mind, then that Master understands the nature of other people's minds.

What is there to learn after realisation? In one sense, nothing. No knowledge can add to the Self. In another sense, everything. Learning about the Creation we live in is a never-ending mental adventure. We each have a mind - let us use it. There is value in developing our capacity for abstract thought, but this is itself a stepping stone towards the development of intuition or direct knowledge.

Peace.

[Tara5]

Originally Posted by God-Like

Why would a Self realized master need to understand and study concepts of the mind .

I'd like to share with you an incident from Robert Adams's Life : Robert stated, "From the very beginning, as far back as I can remember, when I was in my crib a little man with a gray beard and white hair used to appear before me at the other end of the crib, about two feet tall, and speak gibberish to me."

he had had visions of a white haired, bearded man seated at the foot of his bed, who was about two feet tall, and who used to talk to him in a language which he did not understand. He told his parents but they thought he was playing games. He would later find out that this man was a vision of his future guru Sri Ramana Maharshi.

So, Robert didn't go to Ramana to study the concepts of the mind.

I my mum was my master in my life and she was a guide to my realizations . She didn't study the scriptures and neither have I .

Wow, lucky you!
I'm curious to know more about your mom

What is there to know post realzation? What is there to learn?

Nothing...But, as we know, Maya (illusion) is sometimes more powerful than the Self...Maya constantly pushes us back from progressing spiritually...
So, Sangha or Satsang (The term Satsang is coined from the Sanskrit language, with sat meaning "the absolute truth" and sang meaning " company of seekers or saints...Gathering of the Truth/Oneness) is considered very important - to spend time with a group-of-same is absolutely important to help us ascend and grow

In regards to self awareness as the ego, for examples sake, you observe the candle . You are aware of the candle . You are aware of the candle because you are self aware . You are aware of a candle as a candle and not a lemon because you have already self identified what you relate yourself to being and what the candle is .

This process of self awareness is ego based .

Can i observe the candle without the Me?
Yes!
I can observe the candle without any 'past knowledge'...without Naming it..
watching becomes an ego-based process when we Watch with a Conditioned-Mind....

Can you give me an example of how you can have a sense of yourself without ego .x daz x

I know I Am, without any help of my mind...

Our ego dissolves when we are sleeping, right?

So, who says, i had slept very well last night? Who says it? Who knows it?
Does ego say it? Does ego know it?

[Tara5]

Originally Posted by iamthat

Maybe it is not about understanding and studying concepts of the mind, but more about understanding the nature of the mind. We all have to deal with our minds,

And the mind is like peeling the Onion...peel off one layer, and there is another underneath, and then another and another...

What is there to learn after realisation? In one sense, nothing. No knowledge can add to the Self. In another sense, everything.
Peace.

That was beautifully said.