Integrate or Renounce .

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Well yes, integrate or renounce and because.....?

I don't either integrate nor renounce, I come across things that inspire me in the moment and I'll 'adopt' them in the moment. That way of thinking inspired me at the time and became a 'seed'. We are supposed to be the Universe trying to figure itself out, along with any number of alternatives 'out there'.

Adopting or taking on board something or other is integrating . I would say there is an automatic process happening in regards to experience ..

Allowing things to be as they are is integration ..

I agree there is an element of trying to figure itself out .. in a way it's just remembering ..


x daz x

Originally Posted by God-Like

Adopting or taking on board something or other is integrating . I would say there is an automatic process happening in regards to experience ..

Allowing things to be as they are is integration ..

I agree there is an element of trying to figure itself out .. in a way it's just remembering ..


x daz x

If that's the case then I integrated the concept of the observer not being separate from the observed and the experiencer not being separate from the experienced, therefore there is neither integration nor separation. And you allowing my drivel to be as it is means you're integrating it?

For me it's quite simple, things either inspire or resonate with me or they don't, move on. Such as...

One thing, all things:
move along and intermingle without distinction
To live in this realization
is to be without anxiety about non-perfection
To live in this faith is the road to non-duality
Because the non-dual is one with the trusting mind
Words !
The Way is beyond language
For in it there is
no yesterday
no tommorrow
no today
VERSES ON THE FAITH MIND
by Sosan Zenji (Seng-Tsan) - the third Zen Patriarch.
Translated by Ricahard B. Clarke.


This is what I've been looking for, something beyond words and language that doesn't need interpretation nor definition - it just is. It is non-duality, it's the space where there is no 'negative' nor 'positive', there is no need for balance because there are never oppositions and that suits me fine. I don't worry too much about whether I integrate or renounce, but if I do renounce what does that mean?

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

If that's the case then I integrated the concept of the observer not being separate from the observed and the experiencer not being separate from the experienced, therefore there is neither integration nor separation. And you allowing my drivel to be as it is means you're integrating it?

For me it's quite simple, things either inspire or resonate with me or they don't, move on. Such as...

One thing, all things:
move along and intermingle without distinction
To live in this realization
is to be without anxiety about non-perfection
To live in this faith is the road to non-duality
Because the non-dual is one with the trusting mind
Words !
The Way is beyond language
For in it there is
no yesterday
no tommorrow
no today
VERSES ON THE FAITH MIND
by Sosan Zenji (Seng-Tsan) - the third Zen Patriarch.
Translated by Ricahard B. Clarke.


This is what I've been looking for, something beyond words and language that doesn't need interpretation nor definition - it just is. It is non-duality, it's the space where there is no 'negative' nor 'positive', there is no need for balance because there are never oppositions and that suits me fine. I don't worry too much about whether I integrate or renounce, but if I do renounce what does that mean?

If you believe in a specific concept then yes, you have at some point in time integrated that concept within your belief system . This integrating / renouncing stuff is very natural and can be very subtle and gradual, so much so that one can on some level not be aware that it's happening .

Depending on context, allowance is integrating, and not allowing is renouncing .

Some of your beliefs I resonate with, some I don't and I am sure that cut's both ways, for some shared beliefs there is no renouncing or integrating happening as one has already attained the same belief .

Something beyond words and language that doesn't need interpretation nor definition - it just is, doesn't nullify what's happening that can be interpreted and defined .

You hug your wife, partner, child and there requires no words or definitions .. butt on the flip side your not renouncing their love, their hugs, their affection ..

If you or they were to turn their backs to such advances then what is happening? Something beyond words?

Sometimes a feeling or a thought is enough that requires no in depth explanation, but the action and expression say's it all, something more than perhaps words could ..

In the absence of words the thoughts and feelings explain what's happening and integrating and renouncing will play it's part in those thoughts and feelings regardless of words spoken or not ..

I understand that you don't go about your day worrying whether you integrate or renounce, I wouldn't suppose that many go about their day doing that, I certainly don't .. The main gist of the thread was about Self realized peeps that renounce other aspects of themselves, which doesn't in my eyes emphasis supposed oneness ..



x daz x

[7luminaries]

Hahaha...well, as I come back a bit to centre and away from too much equanimity ....I've just realised something...

I realize I'm feeling a bit ignored by both you gents
who have not yet got around to my last to each of you on the prior page...

Looking fwd

Peace & blessings
7L

[7luminaries]

Still looking fwd ....or not, as ye please

LOL

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

If we address the integrity gap within ourselves rather than getting stoned and living in all those complicated contradictions you describe so well...and seeking bliss like an addict seeks a fix...we can instead begin to manifest who we are in unity rather than who we are in misalignment. And then we can each truly begin to change the world. By changing What Is in this now moment. IMO, isn't that so much more magical and illuminating and inspirational? Just the simple act of being and doing is all the bliss we need...or very close to it, anyway

For me, authentic love of what is, is so much more beautiful, true, good and yes blissful than the pursuit of bliss for its own sake. True, it can seem tough to encompass the dark and nasty bits with authentic love, but authentic love is also strong and disciplined. Authentic love sets boundaries for a mutuality of civility and honour and respect. Authentic love also says no to feeding the wolf of sadism and savagery and any unhinged, singular pursuit of oneself above all others (including one's bliss, LOL). Authentic love is an acknowledgment of what is up to this moment but it is also a statement of what will be in this moment and going forward. Above all, it is real and present and grounded, and the bliss it naturally manifests is the product of that reality. Some folks seem to have a hard time grasping that it's precisely what is real and present and grounded which is also unbound by time and space. That's how you know it's REAL. They're seeking the temporary bliss rather than the timeless bliss and sublime joy of authentic love...and they've got to figure out the difference for themselves.

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

On the other hand, from the vantage of equanimity, you are beyond caring about a large range of stuff, which is a blessing. You care on principle and of course you care for the welfare of others, but beyond these universals, much personal emotion simply does not rise to the fore until and unless you are met in that place of equanimity and true respect. And you realise ever more how this personal exchange of lovingkindness, whether in word or deed or both, is the only real reason we are here. And the only real thing in this place that resonates with the authentic love we are at centre.

The primacy of lovingkindness in our treatment of one another has come to be more important to me than nearly anything else, and of course I include social justice as a key form of lovingkindness, along with care of the environment. But first & foremost, it is about how we treat those in our lives. Right behind that is the primacy of my own right to be, of my right to my own truth and to define myself for myself. 1) The importance of being and doing lovingkindness in word and deed to self and to others equally ...standing against cruelty, violence, and apathy. And 2) my right to autonomy and agency, to say for myself who I am and what I think and feel. To stand against control, oppression, and narcissism...all the usual anti-democratic suspects that revile the individual and the inherent worth of every sentient being.

I am finding the strength to draw boundaries that I and so many women were afraid to do before...like just saying "don't call" instead of just ghosting to avoid the anger and hostility directed toward you, particularly to avoid the hostile male coming out of the woodwork and coming after you. I'm now simply saying, no, you're not allowed to give me orders (I mean, seriously) or tell me who I am, how I feel, or what I think. You're not allowed to label me...you don't know me. I get to define who I am. Stuff I ignored before, or dealt with in other ways, I am simply putting back on whomever (kindly but firmly) so I can likewise deal with my share and my own call to lovingkindness. Not my problem (so to speak)...ahhh, freedom

This is one of the "hidden" yet quite obvious meaning of liberation, eh?...it's liberating, hahaha!

Rings true about Life and about you, and so beautifully put, 7L!

I am a latecomer to this thread. For the sake of clarity and my own understanding I have chosen to reframe the question from integrate or renounce to INTEGRATE OR SEGREGATE. if wholeness is a desirable goal I vote for integrate....:) This is a vote for non-duality as opposed to enhancement of the ego.

Originally Posted by Molearner

I am a latecomer to this thread. For the sake of clarity and my own understanding I have chosen to reframe the question from integrate or renounce to INTEGRATE OR SEGREGATE. if wholeness is a desirable goal I vote for integrate....:) This is a vote for non-duality as opposed to enhancement of the ego.

Beautiful.

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by Molearner

I am a latecomer to this thread. For the sake of clarity and my own understanding I have chosen to reframe the question from integrate or renounce to INTEGRATE OR SEGREGATE. if wholeness is a desirable goal I vote for integrate....:) This is a vote for non-duality as opposed to enhancement of the ego.

And then there's there's the difference between passive INTEGRATION, as in 'allowing' and relating with (non-hostile) 'kindness', and active INTEGRATION which would 'show' as positively initiated engagement and generosity - which is truly FULLY/GIVING of oneself and whatever it is that one 'has' which may be GIVEN

It strikes me that there's a great deal of 'stinginess' and 'unforthcomingness' on the part of many who think of themselves and so 'pose' as really being loving SPIRITS - for who knows how many ego-self 'preserving' reasons. This is not to say that isn't 'better' to be this way than to be 'exploitive' or 'detracting', however.

REAL (full-hearted) Love of Life (unselfishness) means being actively other-augmenting-and-enhancing not just being other-embracing, in my lexicon that is.

There's a mother's (kind of) 'love' for and INTERATION WITH a child and then there's a child's (kind of) love for and INTEGRATION with a mother, if you get my drift.

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

Eventually, with time and experience and grace and wisdom, the bliss seekers may come to apprehend that bliss is just the symptom of the primary cause, which is authentic love in being and doing. It's not hard to grasp, really, once one gets clean of the high and the mind and heart obtain some clarity.

This is the thing, and this is part of the parcel of being ripe and ready and pure for use of a better word .

Authentic Love as you say is not difficult to grasp but unless one is clear and pure and self loving one is never going to grasp it, become it, realize it .

So there is the conundrum, something so simple and straightforward and yet impossible to attain unless the right conditions allow ..

Peeps don't feel full of self love or authentic love when they don't like how they perceive themselves or express themselves or reflect upon what they have become .

Some are not even ready to reflect upon how they see themselves ..

Those that do get a glimpse of what they are in all their glory can find it difficult to maintain such glory .. that's why a glimpse is a glimpse .. You can't maintain Self in the mind-body and perhaps those masters that do get a little grumpy with not maintaining such splendor don't realize that they were not mean't to be the main course, they are here just to taste it .


x daz x